Deepcut revisited

Late onto this thread. I passed out of RAOC basic training in 1984 traded as staff clerk. All soldiers went to Leccy after basic. I missed out because of an old head injury but returned to Deepcut 18 months later to do my HGV. ASMT had moved a small detachment down by then.
and that adds value to this thread how exactly???
 
That's your problem right there son, Deepcut was well before your time.
Believe me, anyone who was serving in the 1970's, 80's and 90's, who will have known instinctively that the whole Deepcut thing was a pile of plop from start from start to finish, and will find The Blake Report to be utterly believable and entire plausible. The findings of the recent inquest into the death of Pte. Cheryl James would seem to indicate that Blake got it right.
Yes i know that, but was deepcut therefore the turning point?
 
Accounting for rose tinted specs, Deepcut was a good place for me in the mid 80s. I learned from generally good NCOs, and, whilst challenged at all points during basic, survived. I even spent longer at Deepcut after basic than most owing to an initial vetting cock up. I had a couple of excellent supernumery jobs and even managed to get on my RPC2 before my first "official" posting. I did my fair share of stags even offering to do extra for a few Bob (£30 the going rate in 84). That said everyone would hide when the guardroom were looking for bodies on a Friday.

With one exception, I never experienced or witnessed any bullying or intimidation. We'd all heard some nightmare rumours about some other recruits, but only ever second hand.

The Blake Report makes sobering reading and I'm in no doubt that Deepcut was not the same place as I experienced.

We had one guy in basic who left us during range camp ironically having won Best Soldier when we passed off the square, for what can only be described as mental health reasons. From what I can recall he was sensitively dealt with. I know of other personal problems that they guys had, again sorted. Before you think we were led by a bunch of social workers... one of the other recruits in our pl was pushing some of the younger guys around. We dealt with this in house. The Pl Comd described us as barbarians when he became aware of what happened: Pl Sgt (PT Delhi 84) rewarded us with a rare well done and eased off on the beasting for a short time.

I'm saddened that Deepcut has been forever tainted with the suicides that took place there, rather than the home of a proud Corps - and I mean the RLC as well as RAOC - and a place that many started a successful career from.
 
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Somewhere in here I related my involvement in the aftermath of a suicide-by-SA80 involving a burst of three rounds through the head. It was clear that the boy had killed himself (even to the point of leaving a suicide note), and that there was no other party involved in the act, however the Coroner chose to ignore the evidence, and left it as an open verdict.

It was my first involvement in an Inquest, and it struck me as an extremely amateurish and biased affair; the Coroner was actively pushing his own pet theory (in this case accidental discharge under the influence of alcohol) regardless of the actual facts,and simply disregarded evidence that was inconvenient to his belief.

To read this experience across to the fresh Inquest for Pte Gray, I have absolutely no confidence that justice will be served by this. To me, it smacks of being told to beat a donkey until you get the required answer: never mind that the donkey can't speak and even if it could the question relates to events 16 years ago, the beatings must continue until the answer is the right one.

Still, at least the lawyers will do well out of it.

Edited to clarify, hopefully.
 
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Somewhere in here I related my involvement in the aftermath of a suicide-by-SA80 involving a burst of three rounds through the head. It was clear that the boy had killed himself (even to the point of leaving a suicide note), and that there was no other party involved in the act, however the Coroner chose to ignore the evidence, and left it as an open verdict.

It was my first involvement in an Inquest, and it struck me as an extremely amateurish and biased affair; the Coroner was actively pushing his own pet theory (in this case accidental discharge under the influence of alcohol) regardless of the actual facts,and simply disregarded evidence that was inconvenient to his belief.

To read this experience across to the fresh Inquest for Pte Gray, I have absolutely no confidence that justice will be served by this. To me, it smacks of being told to beat a donkey until you get the required answer: never mind that the donkey can't speak and even if it could the question relates to events 16 years ago, the beatings must continue until the answer is the right one.

Still, at least the lawyers will do well out of it.

Edited to clarify, hopefully.
Quite agree - some Coroners behave quite shamefully when dealing with suicides by young people. Their objective seems to be trying not to offend or upset the parents, hence the use of an open verdict when it is clear to any right-minded person what the youngster has done.

Open verdicts are a cop-out and only prolong the agony.
 
Sad, very sad. I feel for the witnesses that will have to go through it all again....and anger that some will be making money and infamy off the back of it.

I'm looking at you Frank Swann - forensic firearms 'expert'.

Has the Swann finally flown the nest?

The last 90 page thread on the matter:

A new Deepcut report - published today
I cannot recall any subsequent high profile cases involving that idiot after the mullering he received on Arrse :grin:

Here's a refresher for anyone unfamiliar with events to date:

Deepcut Massacre
 
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Somewhere in here I related my involvement in the aftermath of a suicide-by-SA80 involving a burst of three rounds through the head. It was clear that the boy had killed himself (even to the point of leaving a suicide note), and that there was no other party involved in the act, however the Coroner chose to ignore the evidence, and left it as an open verdict.
Gray's parents were on Newsnight last night and his father raised the fact that he'd been shot twice and expressed his disbelief that this could happen. I almost screamed at the telly to be honest.
Surely, after all that they have been through by now, someone at some point must have explained to them what automatic fire aactually means?

My other gripe was that no-one at Newsnight appears remotely intersted in the fact that there have already been further inquests into the other three deaths and they all found that suicide was the only possible explanation, so presenting this latest decision as some sort of break-through in the face of official indifference, or some ill-defined conspiracy by "the establishment" or whatever, is pretty stupid, not to mention grossly irresponsible.

Once again I recommend that anyone interested in this whole depressing farce should take the trouble to read The Deepcut Report which is readily available on-line. No-one at Newsnight seems to have bothered their arse it must be said.
 
I must admit I've not bothered to watch Newsnight for some time, thanks to the drop in their investigative reporting standard. I'm not exactly surprised to read what @Jaeger saw.
 
Quite agree - some Coroners behave quite shamefully when dealing with suicides by young people. Their objective seems to be trying not to offend or upset the parents, hence the use of an open verdict when it is clear to any right-minded person what the youngster has done.

Open verdicts are a cop-out and only prolong the agony.
Theres financial implications behind an inquest verdict and organisations such as insurance companies, etc, dont pay out on suicide. This may sway some coroners.

About the Blake report, some of you must have read a different version than I. I recall the female witness who approached Benson changing her account many yrs later (when out the army) on whether her companion fired or returned fire. WTF? ... that was as they approached benson at the crivial moment. And iirc wasnt one round unaccounted for from that night?

The other troubling case was the girl and i wont go further as people are still living but didnt the last one to see her alive at the gate deny being there? and tried to put a mucker at the scene! (Its a long time since i read it.)

What was reported at the Jamess second inquest has only broadened my concerns.
 
This will set the conspiracy theorists off like a Schermuly:

"The death of a young soldier at Deepcut barracks 23 years ago was suicide, a coroner has ruled after a new inquest.

Pte Sean Benton, 20, from Hastings, was found with five gunshot wounds to his chest at the Surrey army base in 1995.

He was the first of four young recruits to die between 1995 and 2002, with his death originally recorded as suicide.

Delivering his conclusions at Woking Coroner's Court, Judge Peter Rook QC said three suicide notes were found after his death.

"I'm satisfied that the fatal wounds were self inflicted," he said . . . "

Deepcut soldier death was suicide

Yet again, the training regime of the time comes in for some harsh words, though I do note this paragraph:

"Exploring Pte Benton's early life, the coroner repeated evidence of how as a teenager in 1991 he twice took drugs overdoses after rowing over the tidiness of his bedroom.

The court heard he was not deemed to have any deep-rooted psychiatric issues. . . "
 
If I recall. Benton’s self inflicted death (near the tennis court at the PRB mess) was actually witnessed by the guard 2IC after Benton had tricked another private into handing over his weapon? Can anybody confirm this?
 
If I recall. Benton’s self inflicted death (near the tennis court at the PRB mess) was actually witnessed by the guard 2IC after Benton had tricked another private into handing over his weapon? Can anybody confirm this?
Yes, the Coroner has just confirmed it in the findings of his enquiry actually, for all the good it will do.
Look at the comments below the Mail article for examples of the kind of brain-dead, conspiracy obsessed half-wits we have in this country today.
 
If I recall. Benton’s self inflicted death (near the tennis court at the PRB mess) was actually witnessed by the guard 2IC after Benton had tricked another private into handing over his weapon? Can anybody confirm this?
Suicide notes and witnesses yet still rumbling on after 23 years FFS!
 
Yes, the Coroner has just confirmed it in the findings of his enquiry actually, for all the good it will do.
Look at the comments below the Mail article for examples of the kind of brain-dead, conspiracy obsessed half-wits we have in this country today.
I was at the final day of Cheryl James's inquest for the findings, sitting next to me was a loon who had traveled from up north to let the judge know what his theory was after following the reports during the inquest. It was embarrassing to hear him talk especially with the mother of one of the other dead sitting next to me on the other side. Thankfully he seemed to chicken out.

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