Decorated Veteran fighting for life after attack...

#21
The clowns who made a model of the Grenfell Tower and burned it on a bonfire are the subject of a police investigation. Houses are being searched, and so on. This is all Very Serious.

What they did is/was in bad taste but once over they would have been judged societally - called clowns or *********, ostracised, maybe even got filled in by a couple of likely lads who disagree(d) with their take on race and humour. Job jobbed. Move on.

The police undertaking the investigation are the same police we're constantly told haven't the numbers to stop theft and burglaries, violence and so on. But energy can be found for this. The take I saw on it on social media was, "Ah, but if we don't, it continues the normalisation of racism."

...to which my reaction was, "Bollocks. Public reaction should tell you that racism is far from being normalised in this country." But that won't stop the dog-whistle politicking. We are racist, get used to it.

May is culpable - she cut numbers and is reaping the... 'rewards' isn't the right word but you get what I mean. To quote Bill Slim, "The more you use, the less you lose." Any bloody clown could see that fewer officers would have consequences.

Question: has the money 'saved' by cutting police numbers and reducing working conditions exceeded the cost to society - monetarily and morally - of those consequences?

An analogy: there "isn't the money" to repair potholes. But there is a large pot of insurance money which pays out for damage to vehicles. Go figure.

I don't condone vigilantism. But there always seems to be a rush to protect those who've committed crimes. But that that much effort went into preventing crimes in the first place.

As to the post above which suggests that the attackers were non-white: in the absence of any evidence to support that, what does such a post achieve? I agree with @slipperman - the shits responsible are equally likely to be white. Once we as a society let go of respect, all bets are off.

'Respect' - another one of those words which, in our looking-glass society, has come to have had its meaning reversed.
 
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#22
Not sure about that. Scum is scum and us whities have our fair share of low lifes who are just as capable of carrying out this type of moronic, brutal attack. Hope the old fella makes a full recovery.
I’ve just watched a report on a Special Needs school in the North East being vandalised - the playground and minibus were trashed and offensive, anti-disabled graffiti was sprayed everywhere. Disgusting. Then add into the mix the sheer scale of knife crime and gang warfare in and around London.
Fact is, the country is going to the dogs and our inadequate Political class don't have the moral courage, determination or balls to tackle it head on.
Ticking the latest diversity box? Bring it on - they are falling over themselves to be seen at the forefront of all that bollocks.
Tackling the crime epidemic? Naval gazers, the useless bunch of mediocrities!
Fixed that for you... you're welcome ;-)
 
#23
I'm no Toryite but the tired old 'May cut Police numbers' line is cobblers. The info is out there to check. May kept Police budgets tight, as did Cameron due to the austerity cuts. Off the back of a 'spend it all we wont be here much longer cos ppl have realised Neu Arbiet was a dead duck' approach from Blair & Brown.
If budgets don't increase, recruitment levels remain static or decline if those budgets are cut but actually front line roles reduce cos of retirements & pissed off plods moving elsewhere.
At the end of the day the budgets are spent by the area constabularies & monies therein assigned where they see fit.
 
#25
May reduced her Department's budget by 28% as Home Secretary. She was directed to reduce it by 24% but actually went further. As a result, numbers have reduced massively.
Yet Police and Crime Commisioners offices are growing year on year, a politically led, bloated extra layer of beaurocracy that adds very little to actual crime fighting. Salaries for Commissioners vary from £85k to £125k dependent on the region, some have up to 4 ‘deputies’ on £65k and they all have Chief Executives on a minimum of £75k.
How on earth did the Police manage before?!
 
#26
Yet Police and Crime Commisioners offices are growing year on year, a politically led, bloated extra layer of beaurocracy that adds very little to actual crime fighting. Salaries for Commissioners vary from £85k to £125k dependent on the region, some have up to 4 ‘deputies’ on £65k and they all have Chief Executives on a minimum of £75k.
How on earth did the Police manage before?!
Quite! The damage that the Coalition government did to this country will be with us for the next 25+ years.
 
#27
Yet Police and Crime Commisioners offices are growing year on year, a politically led, bloated extra layer of beaurocracy that adds very little to actual crime fighting. Salaries for Commissioners vary from £85k to £125k dependent on the region, some have up to 4 ‘deputies’ on £65k and they all have Chief Executives on a minimum of £75k.
How on earth did the Police manage before?!
No, no. A very necessary level of oversight and transparency. Get with the plan.

[/SARCASM]
 
#28
Close the door to ALL IMMIGRATION.
Go through the entire country with a fine tooth comb and boot out anyone without the right to be here.

Asylum. **** off. How many safe countries did you travel through to get here.
Kids born here. Tough shit. They get to **** off with you.
Overstayed visa. Deported immediately.

Pikeys. Caravans burned on a big bonfire. All loaded onto a ferry or three and sent back to the bog they crawled out of.

Not a tax paying british citizen. No access to free healthcare, no benefits, no housing, no nothing.

No ifs or buts.

And you watch the rats leave and the crimes like this drop overnight.
 
#30
The clowns who made a model of the Grenfell Tower and burned it on a bonfire are the subject of a police investigation. Houses are being searched, and so on. This is all Very Serious.

What they did is/was in bad taste but once over they would have been judged societally - called clowns or *********, ostracised, maybe even got filled in by a couple of likely lads who disagree(d) with their take on race and humour. Job jobbed. Move on.

The police undertaking the investigation are the same police we're constantly told haven't the numbers to stop theft and burglaries, violence and so on. But energy can be found for this. The take I saw on it on social media was, "Ah, but if we don't, it continues the normalisation of racism."

...to which my reaction was, "Bollocks. Public reaction should tell you that racism is far from being normalised in this country." But that won't stop the dog-whistle politicking. We are racist, get used to it.

May is culpable - she cut numbers and is reaping the... 'rewards' isn't the right word but you get what I mean. To quote Bill Slim, "The more you use, the less you lose." Any bloody clown could see that fewer officers would have consequences.

Question: has the money 'saved' by cutting police numbers and reducing working conditions exceeded the cost to society - monetarily and morally - of those consequences?

An analogy: there "isn't the money" to repair potholes. But there is a large pot of insurance money which pays out for damage to vehicles. Go figure.

I don't condone vigilantism. But there always seems to be a rush to protect those who've committed crimes. But that that much effort went into preventing crimes in the first place.

As to the post above which suggests that the attackers were non-white: in the absence of any evidence to support that, what does such a post achieve? I agree with @slipperman - the shits responsible are equally likely to be white. Once we as a society let go of respect, all bets are off.

'Respect' - another one of those words which, in our looking-glass society, has come to have had its meaning reversed.
Personally, I just thought the burning was moronic behaviour and don't understand why its news, or why they were arrested. It was on somebodies private property and presumably, they didn't broadcast the burning, so some friend presumably rumbled them to the media. If say someone witnessed the event and that person felt it was directed at them, fine, arrest them. But, days after the event and people are outraged when shown the video, i tend to think how thin skinned is society.

The old gent is a similar event, with distance we shouldn't be entirely horrified about this sort of event and spare me the candles and weeping. The police don't actively try to prevent crime, as neighbours said a spate of burgleries and a criminal justice system who will almost certainly, have the culprits on file for some crime and allowed them on the streets to carry out this attack.

I would put good money the animal responsible will have a long criminal record of escalating intensity and those who support the system of justice have some responsibility.
 
#33
Yet Police and Crime Commisioners offices are growing year on year, a politically led, bloated extra layer of beaurocracy that adds very little to actual crime fighting. Salaries for Commissioners vary from £85k to £125k dependent on the region, some have up to 4 ‘deputies’ on £65k and they all have Chief Executives on a minimum of £75k.
How on earth did the Police manage before?!
Quite well actually, first time I joined as a regular plod was in the late 70's to early 80's before I joined the army. Back then when Ernie was still the fastest milkman in the west even if a theft of a bottle of milk was reported off a doorstep in the town we used to go knock on the door, fill out a crime report and it went on the daily crime bulletin. I once had to do undercover observations, in civvy's, on a corner grocers shop as he complained that someone was nicking a loaf of bread from his bulk delivery every couple of mornings. Huge criminal investigations, not.

The thing is as the man in New York City said (I forget who) when they decided that the city had gone far enough down the sewer: If a window gets broken, fix it. If you don't fix it then someone else will break another, and another, and another. You cannot tolerate crime and sweep up after it, you need to prevent crime and show you will use a very big stick on people who do commit crime.

If I look at the population growth in my old county it has risen by around 25% since 1980. Sadly, police numbers have not risen by a similar percentage, add to that the number of tasks and roles diverting officers from uniform policing. Those other roles and diversions include air op's, firearms units, counter terrorism duties, and attchments to various national crime agencies. The net effect is to reduce the number of Bobby's on the beat and their ability to effectively deal with reported crime.

Serious bit: Seeing as you lot are upstanding citizens with previous uniform service, if you still have a pulse and are hankering for a bit of something to do out of the ordinary then go and volunteer as a Special Constable. You are not a walking traffic cone you will get out what you put into it, annoy CID and traffic to work with them, go do some public order training, go shoot MP5's with the ARV lads, get an area vehicle as your own. One, or two 8 hour shifts a month is what they generally ask of you. I joined after the army, I used to go and do 2 or 3 days a week (always friday night) when I was in between fixing up houses - they kept asking me to join as a regular again.
 
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#34
Quite well actually, first time I joined as a regular plod was in the late 70's to early 80's before I joined the army. Back then when Ernie was still the fastest milkman in the west even if a theft of a bottle of milk was reported off a doorstep in the town we used to go knock on the door, fill out a crime report and it went on the daily crime bulletin. I once had to do undercover observations, in civvy's, on a corner grocers shop as he complained that someone was nicking a loaf of bread from his bulk delivery every couple of mornings. Huge criminal investigations, not.

The thing is as the man in New York City said (I forget who) when they decided that the city had gone far enough down the sewer: If a window gets broken, fix it. If you don't fix it then someone else will break another, and another, and another. You cannot tolerate crime and sweep up after it, you need to prevent crime and show you will use a very big stick on people who do commit crime.

If I look at the population growth in my old county it has risen by around 25% since 1980. Sadly, police numbers have not risen by a similar percentage, add to that the number tasks and roles diverting officers from uniform policing. Those other roles and diversions include air op's, firearms units, counter terrorism duties, and attchments to various national crime agencies agencies. The net effect is to reduce the number of Bobby's on the beat and their ability to effectively deal with reported crime.

Serious bit: Seeing as you lot are upstanding citizens with previous uniform service, if you still have a pulse and are hankering for a bit of something to do out of the ordinary then go and volunteer as a Special Constable. You are not a walking traffic cone you will get out what you put into it, annoy CID and traffic to work with them, go do some public order training, go shoot MP5's with the ARV lads, get an area vehicle as your own. One, or two 8 hour shifts a month is what they generally ask of you. I joined after the army, I used to go and do 2 or 3 days a week (always friday night) when I was in between fixing up houses - they kept asking me to join as a regular again.
Start with the small things, encourage people to take responsibility for their lives and their environment, and deal with criminals adequately before offending becomes a way of life.

It seems to me that 'start with the small things' applies to most things in life.
 
#35
The thing is as the man in New York City said (I forget who) when they decided that the city had gone far enough down the sewer: If a window gets broken, fix it. If you don't fix it then someone else will break another, and another, and another. You cannot tolerate crime and sweep up after it, you need to prevent crime and show you will use a very big stick on people who do commit crime.

Mayor Giuliani and his police commissioner William Bratton, using the broken window theory by Wilson & Kelling.

A clear demonstration of how a zero tolerance approach in policing could effect dramatic improvement not only in criminal activity, but also in encouraging urban regeneration and social improvement.

However as socialist politicians (and senior policepersons, apparently) eschew evidence in favour of dogma, I guess we are unlikely ever to see this applied in UK.
 
#36
#37
Amazing how, when BoJo was Mayor, the press would be shouting from the roofs everytime one person was scratched. Here we have a wave of murders and very little opprobrium is being aimed at Mayor Khan. Wonder why that is?...!

Mayor Khan seems to be keeping an unusually low media profile these days.
are you suggesting that the Mayor of London has taken to a life of crime?
 
#38
Then add into the mix the sheer scale of knife crime and gang warfare in and around London.
Don't take all the lime light, Scotland, and especially Glasgow and surrounding areas have a pretty large issue with knife crime. Police Scotland are pretty good at denying it and therefore "not seeing it".

We have the highest number of school kids carrying knives in the UK.
 
#39
There was also some abuse at a Uni open day towards the OTC from a small group of "independence activists".
‘‘Twas ever thus! When I was a PSI at EMUOTC back in 1991, the Freshers Fair organisers took great delight in putting our stand right next to the Vegan Society or the SWP - what fun!
The difference being, back in those days we could tell them to go and fcuk themselves without every snowflake in the vicinity taking offence and immediately posting it on Social Media. How we laughed! :grin:
 

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