Discussion in 'Royal Navy' started by Armand2REP, Oct 19, 2010.
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STOVL F35B was never the right aircraft for huge 65,000 ton Carriers. I wonder if there is any chance of an outbreak of common sense and the RN getting a much cheaper, but still highly capable aircraft like Super Hornet, in larger numbers than F35C?
Although how the RN is to keep Carrier aircraft skills for all those years with no fixed wing aircraft is totally beyond me. You expect the RAF to betray the RN FAA, but the Government should not help them.
Enemies like Argentina will be looking closely at this huge, no British Aircraft Carrier window.
None, I think - with the general commitment of the UK to a Typhoon / F35C fast jet mix. The point being that the Crabs will be able to augment the FAA from the very limited (12 IIRC) normal complement (will the FAA have 2 squadrons - one on, on off, therefore only needing 1 Crab squadron to bring them up to the 35ish design complement?)
I think this is the best place really for a rant, because i'm desperately pissed off at the way this SDSR has gone for my service, and I suspect we only have ourselves to blame. It has been pointed out by others not of the RN, and others in the Service at just how badly a kicking we were going to get, but I wanted so badly to believe that sense would prevail.
Now I know the Army will point to Afghan, and their garrison duties, and the RAF will point to the air bridge, and CAP etc etc but just looking at these cuts I cannot see how they have been balanced in the slightest and they just make no ******* sense. The RAF, who I do have respect for, and do believe are a necessary force played well but have fucked British National interests in the pursuit of their own pointy agenda. They are not solely to blame, the Admiralty must also take their share.
So the RAF lose Harrier, and Nimrods, the TWO assets that they use that benefit the RN the most. They keep Tornado and Typhoon, they keep Green Merlin just when the Sea Kings are dying a death slowly, all to sustain the Tonka fleet. Here's a thought, how about taking a hit for the benefit of us all? Selfish, and disgusting approach to force enabling.
And regarding from the woeful decisions made by my own Service in this matter - we can not sit and point fingers at the other services, and the MoD and Labour and the ConDems because we are as to blame as they are. The relentless quest for these ******* carriers has crippled us. MCMV's, the Royal Marines and Amphibs, Hydrography and Intelligence gathering - it's been pointed out as they things we currently do best before, yet all have taken huge hits to protect two carriers - regardless of their size, and capability they are not worth ruining the Service for and have been used as a huge lever by the other services to force us to give up far more than we should have, not least because we deliver the most for UK PLC in terms of defence no matter how the other Services will cry and moan.
Finally, the MoD and Government. I've always been a tory, and have defended them staunchly in the past but the cock handed and rushed manner this defence review has been conducted in has ruined it. I had hoped for an approach that showed more sense, and long term thought than the previous govt, but obviously not. Looking at Dr Fox's face, as Cameron read out the reviews spoke volumes to me, he looked sick as I felt. I understand the need for cuts, but don't take us for idiots, and don't **** us around by pretending we're coming out of this more capable, because we aren't, we have effectively been neutered and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of anything.
Defence can't be run by politicians. So few have any idea what it is about, just talking to my local MP showed that, just listening to David Cameron, and worse than that they are aware of this but are too reliant on senior officers - of any colour. Let a defence minister, and a PM - because let us face facts, s/he is the one with the final say regardless of what the minister for defence says - read, and understand, and really know the subject and be able to make his/her OWN mind up beyond single service games and how does the best powerpoint.
I don't care if that is ranting, I don't care if it seems like i'm throwing a tantrum, because in a way I am. I need to vent, this whole situation is a disgrace and the sheer futility of making a logical argument int eh face of the ******* treasury is infuriating. I believed the reason there were so many Naval stories in the past month was a well played gambit by the RN to secure a better footing. I now realise that I was wrong, and that they were desperate because in the halls of the MoD we were losing the arguments.
I feel betrayed mostly and for all the excellent choices that could have been made to save money but still stay capable, we end up with this - for all three services.
1. The light at the end of the tunnel is a train rushing towards you.
2. If anyone thinks we'll get 13 T26 to replace the T23 is fucking out of their head. I'll forecast about 6 - 8; concomitant reductions will see us operating solely in the Indian Ocean/Somali Basin/Arabian Sea.
3. I'm seriously looking at other options within the Service, such is my pessimism that we'll promote anyone who wants a work/life balance and isn't a Spec N.....
I know, I can't cope with this shit much longer especially as they'll try that same 'more capable, need less' bull that they always do.
Life in a Blue One.
Could be worse...... Erm, give me a minute!
The structural problems within the defence programme (and the failure to tackle them over the last 5 years), the deliberate abolition of all joint capability in the maritime arena, and concomitant politically-driven emasculation of the RN, can be firmly attributed to one individual - the outgoing (and long serving) CDS. It ALL happened on HIS watch.
If he were the CEO of a major corporation, he would have been not only sacked, but also pilloried in the media and prosecuted for misuse of funds. Instead, he'll toddle off to a clutch of aerospace non-executive directorships, write his memoirs (provisionally titled "My Brilliant Career in a Land Locked Nation") and reminisce with Gordon Brown about how wonderful they were together.
"So the RAF lose Harrier, and Nimrods, the TWO assets that they use that benefit the RN the most. They keep Tornado and Typhoon, they keep Green Merlin just when the Sea Kings are dying a death slowly..."
mmmm I am confused. I thought that the Green Merlins were going to the FAA? Is this right? If not what will happen once the Sea Kings go in just a few years? I have read the briefs but I can't remember seeing anything on this... what is the plan???
On the plus side, our forces will now be fully optimised to fight any future aggressor equipped with AK-47s, RPGs, roadside bombs and donkeys.
At least we came out of it with all capabilities intact - all except ASW, ASuW and SAR top cover that lasts longer than a few hours, at any decent range or altitude!
Axing of MPA.4 was the real kidney punch.
My tinfoil hat is glowing red-hot and I'm ready to believe anything about why it was cancelled! ******* jealous new world order Moloch-cock licking *****.
Edit : They laugh as they watch us blame each other. The TSR2 jigs were destroyed immediately they were cancelled. I bet the same thing will happen to Nimrod jigs, if they haven't already. That's it. There's no defence against this order of treachery. Roll on the asteroids.
Agreed, especially for the RN the SDSR is an abortion.
Apparently, this is called "Securing Britain in an Age of Uncertainty".
If it's an age of uncertainty - the how come they seem sure that carriers won't be needed for ten years?
No war for ten years. Simples.
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