Decline in armed officers in the UK - BBC News

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by nottyash, Dec 26, 2007.

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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7160045.stm

    The government claims that the numbers of armed officers is a local decision, determined by each CC. Is this the case, or does it;

    Have something to do with officers increasingly declining to carry firearms, for fear of being prosecuted for their actions. (Now that sounds familiar).

    Or is it simply that the UK Police Forces still don't really subscribe to armed officers in the Police Service and to a degree pay lip service to it.

    Interestingly in a recent poll conducted by the Police Federation, it found that 75% of serving officers do not wan't to be routinely armed and that a large number of them would think about a change in career, should the policy of routinely arming coppers be implimented.

    To my mind, in this day and age ALL police officers should carry firearms. The number of armed incidents is rising, (Despite what the government tells us).

    There was a recorded incident, in one small county force, where traffic officers, doubled up as firearms officers (In an apparent attempt to save money), who, whilst in the middle of dealing with a fatal RTC, had to up sticks, to respond to an armed incident.

    It also seems to me, that 20 years ago, we did not hear about deficiencies here, there and everywhere, or to that end, there seemed to be far less criticism of public servants such as the armed forces and the police.

    Is it a fact, that we are simply better informed, as a direct result of closer scrutiny in every aspect of UK life, where as before scrutiny did not exist?

    Or are things really starting to fall apart that much, that all we seem to hear in the media, is how bad everything is?

    To my mind, It would ne nice to hear about some positive things just for a change.

    Edited to add: I keep also hearing about the H&S gurus, who prevent police from entering 'dangerous situations' until armed officers are available, which is not only time consuming, it can also be down right dangerous for members of the public, who the police are there to serve.

    Whilst I do understand the life saving principle of, 'To help you need to be alive', if the police were armed, this would be less of an issue.
     
  2. Judging from the absence of any serious level of active policing (By which I mean coppers actually on the beat) anywhere I have lived or visited in the UK recently. Things are indeed falling apart. CCTV, like speed cameras, may help detect crime but it certainly isnt doing much to prevent it.

    We dont need lots of armed police, we just need lots of police presence. Meaningful jail terms for criminals who carry or use guns would also help.
     
  3. The collapse of effective policing is the sole cause of "gun violence", as it is with the millions of other crimes that now go uninvestigated/ unpunished.

    If the BBC were capable of proper journalism, their webpage full of anti-gun articles might have looked into the actual facts or asked some obvious questions about why draconian gun laws have had no effect on crime...
     
  4. Yes, coppers 'on the beat' is the most important manifestation of 'serious' police work.
     
  5. As much as I agree with this, can you imagine how much it would cost? Firstly, there would have to be enough trainers to deliver the training to every single bobby in the country. Enough weapons for every single bobby in the country and with a Glock pistol costing aprrox £300 plus and then you are going to have the added costs of armouries, ranges, ammo, parts, holsters etc and then finally the cost of training every individual bobby in the country and reguarly maintaining their training the cost is going to be phenomenal. And with the police are struggling to get a pittance of a pay rise at the minute I cannot see the British bobby on the beat being armed any time soon.
     
  6. I fly for the police and my missus is a newly qualified detective. The problem is that you only get to read what is allowed out by the bosses. Sound familiar?? Just like the military....... Brown says that you have all the kit you need and morale is high. We all know the spin about the forces, problem is, it goes on about NHS, Civil Service, police etc etc.
    We are undermanned and underfunded, just like you. On our unit, since september when the annual budget ran out, we cant order anything without a senior officers signature. Imagine, we need 10 biros and that has to be signed by a full colonel equivalent rank!! Madness, but normal here.
    The earlier post about firearms officers attending a fatal RTC and having to leave. Normal, because there arn't enough officers to go around. Those we have are usually filling in paperwork that the CPS order them to fill in for EVERY arrest. After promising to reduce red tape, they brought out a new 16 page document to be completed in addition to the alredy massive paper trail. Funny thing, they told everyone it was colour coded to ease filling in. Great!! All the printers are black and white! You just couldn't make it up.....
    We often see posts about seeing coppers sitting in cafes drinking coffee. No canteens now for scoff, so you have to 'eat out' on your break. In every life there are oxygen thieves, the police are no exception. There are some lazy wasters, but the majority are trying to do a decent job with no resources....... Sound familiar?????
     
  7. 190,000 Police Officers;

    Weapons: £57m
    Training: £95m
    Ammo: £13.3m

    Net result: Priceless

    Lot of money, but a lot less cheaper than Northern Rock!
     
  8. As long as there are enough Armed Police to protect the PM, Minsters and HOP, our glorious leaders don't give a fcuk about real people. :x

    I would be surprised if a lot of coppers did'nt want to join AR etc; from what I've read/heard, specialist units have a damn sight less paperwork than "normal" coppers...
     
  9. [I would be surprised if a lot of coppers did'nt want to join AR etc; from what I've read/heard, specialist units have a damn sight less paperwork than "normal" coppers...[/quote]

    As I understand it, there is a higher fitness criteria for the ARU's, so usually, but not exlusively attracts the younger applicant.
     
  10. Seconded. Apart from anything else, police are not selected on their ability to use firearms. If you were to arm the police en masse, you might find a significant number of otherwise good coppers were not suitible for firearms duties. So either they continue to carry out their duties unarmed or you bin them.

    It also could not been done quickly; 190,000 coppers takes a lot of training; a CO19 officer interviwed for a documentary said it would take at least five years to train every copper in the UK to the required standard - and only if you froze recruitment, which brings it's own problems.

    Finally, and as Wolf pointed out - the Gub'mint already has enough armed coppers to protect the people it cares about(themselves). The rest of us will have to make do with a PCSO bimbling down our street every third Tuesday... :x

    Until IMPORTANT people - politicians, judges, chief constables etc - start getting shot on a regular basis, we will not see an increase in armed police.
     
  11. Lots of coppers on the street will do nothing to prevent crime. The only way is to punish those who commit crime.

    Criminals are like fish. They are caught only to be let go to be caught again and again. If the Government adopted a policy of 3 strikes and you're out (hanged) then crime would halve within a month.
     
  12. Not only are there less armed officers there are less officers per head of population as well, don't forget most forces stopped recruiting because the only money they got from HMG had to be spent on PCSOs, policing on the cheap, but you are correct in assuming protected persons will always get priority as that comes from central funding. You are incorrect re the paperwork for ARV crews, they now not only have to take on and deal with incidents they are tasked to but also have to be ready to drop everything to attend an armed incident. Happy christmas.
     
  13. a CO19 officer interviwed for a documentary said it would take at least five years to train every copper in the UK to the required standard

    I did not see the interview that you refer to. No do I think the interviewee was trying to mislead the interviewer, and whilst I do not claim to be an expert in the training of armed civil police officers, I suspect that this particular CO19 (Formerly) SO19 officer, is protecting his specialist role. A lot of people often guard the exclusivity of that role.

    Not every officer would need to be trained to the degree that their intervention teams are.

    I seem to remember that the PPO's course, which used to run in N.I. was about two weeks, followed by continuation training.

    I am not nieve enough to believe that once your trained that's it, but there is nothing to stop them introducing a rolling training programme.

    For example in the early 90's (I think), when the WRAC became members of their own Capbadges and ceased to be attached personnel they had a choice;

    To continue to not bear arms or,

    Sign an agreement to bear arms.

    Anyone after a particular date, did not have a choice.

    The police could do something similar. I am not 100% certain, but I think that we are still the only country in the civilised world that does not arm it's police officers.
     
  14. Agree with you about Three Strikes, but if you don't have plenty of coppers on the street, you're not going to catch the fcukers in the first place... :roll:
     
  15. We are definately the only G8 country not to routinely arm it's police officers...which may explain why the Rent-A-Mobs were less enthusiastic about demonstrating in Moscow than Edinburgh. Russian police are less "restrained" than British coppers! :twisted: