Debate on Thursday in Derby. The military: muscle or mindfulness?

#43
Meaning you weren't interested in the answer you just hoped you could make me look like I didn't understand, shame it didn't work.
Not at all. You contended that civilian input to military matters would be a good thing and I told you that such input already occurs and has done for some time. Certainly since the Napoleonic era anyhoo.

Whether it's been effective or not is neither here nor there. Human fraility being what it is, someone always screws the pooch whether civvy or military.
 
#45
I was chatting to a Danish investment banker on Thursday evening. He told me that their conscription lottery is seen as a good thing by the yoof. It offers decent qualifications and life experience. I think the real issue is that there isn’t enough push. People don’t need the Army to get fed or money in their pocket or an education. It’s not viewed as easier than an apprenticeship. If you change the benefit structure, make it harder to get into College or Uni I think we would be in a different situation.
 
#47
I was chatting to a Danish investment banker on Thursday evening. He told me that their conscription lottery is seen as a good thing by the yoof. It offers decent qualifications and life experience. I think the real issue is that there isn’t enough push. People don’t need the Army to get fed or money in their pocket or an education. It’s not viewed as easier than an apprenticeship. If you change the benefit structure, make it harder to get into College or Uni I think we would be in a different situation.
If you attempt to force, even just by denying benefits, you might as well introduce conscription. You will have the unwilling doing the job because they have to. Assuming conscription is politically even less likely to happen that the government having the bottle to tell us to eat less meat and drive slower then we have to look at carrots. One advantage of using positive reinforcement is we can look at the sort of person we need in the military, not necessarily the sort of person we have had historically and recruit accordingly, but this would require flexible thinking at high levels and might well challenge whole areas of tradition so it's also pretty unlikely. Rather like global warming we will do something when disaster actually strikes, either a big war or recruitment collapses so far they start sacking VSOs.
 

Pob02

LE
Book Reviewer
#48
I've emailed the organisers to see if there's a link to a report or similar. I'm assuming that no one from ARRSE attended.
Please post the response ( if you ever get one).
 
#49
Please post the response ( if you ever get one).
That was the whole purpose of mailing them. I'm sure there'll be something in it to get the frothers and foamers going and there might even be some useful conclusions.
 
#50
If you attempt to force, even just by denying benefits, you might as well introduce conscription. You will have the unwilling doing the job because they have to. Assuming conscription is politically even less likely to happen that the government having the bottle to tell us to eat less meat and drive slower then we have to look at carrots. One advantage of using positive reinforcement is we can look at the sort of person we need in the military, not necessarily the sort of person we have had historically and recruit accordingly, but this would require flexible thinking at high levels and might well challenge whole areas of tradition so it's also pretty unlikely. Rather like global warming we will do something when disaster actually strikes, either a big war or recruitment collapses so far they start sacking VSOs.
Positive reinforcement requires money. It also ignores the fact that they can get a better offer in the real world. Take the Royal Signals, only 1 trade in the Corps has civilian accreditation. Nothing else does. Potential joiners are probably better off in college, taking drugs with there mates and living their lives with their friends than having massive restrictions placed on them and living in the UK but away from their friends. That takes a lot of money to resolve.
 
#51
Positive reinforcement requires money. It also ignores the fact that they can get a better offer in the real world. Take the Royal Signals, only 1 trade in the Corps has civilian accreditation. Nothing else does. Potential joiners are probably better off in college, taking drugs with their mates and living their lives with their friends than having massive restrictions placed on them and living in the UK but away from their friends. That takes a lot of money to resolve.
You get what you pay for. Unfortunately while we could once afford to make do with an inferior model of common soldier the nature of modern warfare and military equipment means the sweepings of the prisons that populated Wellington's army are no longer adequate.
 

Pob02

LE
Book Reviewer
#52
That was the whole purpose of mailing them. I'm sure there'll be something in it to get the frothers and foamers going and there might even be some useful conclusions.
I would not put money on useful conclusions . .. .. . .sadly.
 

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