• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

Death Penalty in US. ( a different take on it)

#2
Yes, I read that article, too. I was struck by the chilling nature of the bureaucratic process - the repeated practices, for example - and the impact on the staff of the cold, calculated and deliberate killing of someone they have known for years.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
What I Learned From Executing Two Men

I've just read this small article via the SKY web page, quite a thought provoking read from the man who was the prison governor.
He raises some very pertinent points and questions the validity of the death sentence in modern society.
Very interesting read tbh
If you are interested in this subject then have a look on you tube at an old BBC documentary called "14 days in May". I first watched this back in 1987 when it was first broadcasted.

The warden of the prison at the time has since died but did write a very good article about his experience, especially regarding the above, very thought provoking.
Below is a link of the warden, Don Cabana who was in charge of the above execution, very moving.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/donald-cabana-warden-who-loathed-death-penalty-dies-at-67.html
 
Last edited:
#4
Yes, I read that article, too. I was struck by the chilling nature of the bureaucratic process - the repeated practices, for example - and the impact on the staff of the cold, calculated and deliberate killing of someone they have known for years.

Presumably this is why British practice was to make the whole process from (confirmation of) sentencing to execution as brisk and procedural as possible, and with an execution process that was itself decisive and beyond doubt in its outcome (i.e. none of the uncertainty around the use of drugs, electricity or even shooting). IIRC a typical Wandsworth execution took about 4 minutes from the time the prison officers arrived to collect the prisoner from his cell until the drop itself.

The US system of near-endless appeals and subsequent years and - sometimes - decades on Death Row does seem needlessly cruel on all involved - e.g. often with victims' relatives dying off before the offender due punishment.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Presumably this is why British practice was to make the whole process from (confirmation of) sentencing to execution as brisk and procedural as possible, and with an execution process that was itself decisive and beyond doubt in its outcome (i.e. none of the uncertainty around the use of drugs, electricity or even shooting). IIRC a typical Wandsworth execution took about 4 minutes from the time the prison officers arrived to collect the prisoner from his cell until the drop itself.

The US system of near-endless appeals and subsequent years and - sometimes - decades on Death Row does seem needlessly cruel on all involved - e.g. often with victims' relatives dying off before the offender due punishment.
According to Albert Pierpoint(excuse spelling), it took around 30 - 40 seconds from the time they entered the condemned cell to the time the trap door swung open. Very quick indeed. And only three Sunday's had to to pass from the sentence to the execution itself.
 
#6
One of the apparent arguments in the US is that execution saves money compared with the cost of keeping someone in prison for the rest of their life.
When you consider the long wait for execution, sometimes twenty years, and the costs of the almost endless appeals, it's difficult to justify that argument.
 
#7
I read the obit, and I remember watching the documentary. Cabana, like quite a few of his peers, seemed a decent man - clearly he bore the weight of the process heavily. To discover that in all likelihood an innocent man had been put to death under your supervision would be, at least to me, a burden hard to bear.

It underpins my opposition to be death penalty. There is no 100% perfect process that can condemn a guilty person to death with no risk of incorrect verdict or miscarriage. On that basis how can the state sanction execution, knowing that it will get it wrong.

Stafford Smith, however, is a berk.
 
#8
I think the whole correctional facilities approach is BS.

No.1 America is a backwards as Saudi Arabia for allowing the death penalty. I am not a religious person but a civilized nation do not murder people in custody.

2. Sentencing, be it death or life or in between is not a deterrent. There are a number of causes you could be in the position of going to prison, if I look at myself, it would most likely be a driving offense.

3. People who murder, rape, underage stuff are sick, possibly they have no morality. I know a thief and bully who I would like to see locked up forever because he is sick. The threat of a 10 year stretch doesnt bother him whilst he hurts and robs people. A paedo doesnt stop getting turned on by kids from the threat of a jail sentence.

We need to grow up and categorize prisoners and not be afraid to keep sick people locked up forever until we find a cure, a number of days in prison does not make a paedo straight.

4. Despite above and not pretending I know the answer, I would put my hand up and say what we have is not right and it needs reviewing. I would like HM Gov to take a really polar review of the system which is obviously broken. We can lead the world with a modern justice system and throw off the hackles of ancient law and ambulance chasing lawyers whilst protecting those who get caught up as opposed to those who are broken brained.
 
#9
One of the apparent arguments in the US is that execution saves money compared with the cost of keeping someone in prison for the rest of their life.
When you consider the long wait for execution, sometimes twenty years, and the costs of the almost endless appeals, it's difficult to justify that argument.
Well that's cobblers for a start, due to appeals process and the heightend court activity the cost spirals, a Death Row prisoner is just shy of a Million$ per annum averaged to about 18 yrs.
 
#10
Of course you need to be able to trust the justice system too, from "corrupt" cops and prosecutors upwards. Prison is big business in Septicland, which itself is bad, when contracts guarantee private prisons a minimum level of customers at the risk of compensation being due.
 
#11
I think the whole correctional facilities approach is BS.

No.1 America is a backwards as Saudi Arabia for allowing the death penalty. I am not a religious person but a civilized nation do not murder people in custody.

2. Sentencing, be it death or life or in between is not a deterrent. There are a number of causes you could be in the position of going to prison, if I look at myself, it would most likely be a driving offense.

3. People who murder, rape, underage stuff are sick, possibly they have no morality. I know a thief and bully who I would like to see locked up forever because he is sick. The threat of a 10 year stretch doesnt bother him whilst he hurts and robs people. A paedo doesnt stop getting turned on by kids from the threat of a jail sentence.

We need to grow up and categorize prisoners and not be afraid to keep sick people locked up forever until we find a cure, a number of days in prison does not make a paedo straight.

4. Despite above and not pretending I know the answer, I would put my hand up and say what we have is not right and it needs reviewing. I would like HM Gov to take a really polar review of the system which is obviously broken. We can lead the world with a modern justice system and throw off the hackles of ancient law and ambulance chasing lawyers whilst protecting those who get caught up as opposed to those who are broken brained.
I actually agree with what you have said there, absolutely 100%.
 
#12
I think the whole correctional facilities approach is BS.

No.1 America is a backwards as Saudi Arabia for allowing the death penalty. I am not a religious person but a civilized nation do not murder people in custody.

2. Sentencing, be it death or life or in between is not a deterrent. There are a number of causes you could be in the position of going to prison, if I look at myself, it would most likely be a driving offense.

3. People who murder, rape, underage stuff are sick, possibly they have no morality. I know a thief and bully who I would like to see locked up forever because he is sick. The threat of a 10 year stretch doesnt bother him whilst he hurts and robs people. A paedo doesnt stop getting turned on by kids from the threat of a jail sentence.

We need to grow up and categorize prisoners and not be afraid to keep sick people locked up forever until we find a cure, a number of days in prison does not make a paedo straight.

4. Despite above and not pretending I know the answer, I would put my hand up and say what we have is not right and it needs reviewing. I would like HM Gov to take a really polar review of the system which is obviously broken. We can lead the world with a modern justice system and throw off the hackles of ancient law and ambulance chasing lawyers whilst protecting those who get caught up as opposed to those who are broken brained.
Some people just deserve it - I wonder if you were related to a victim of some of these oxygen thieves, you would reconsider?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
Some people just deserve it - I wonder if you were related to a victim of some of these oxygen thieves, you would reconsider?
It is the final sanction of the state on behalf of civilised society, without the death penalty there would be even more gun crime in the States. Lawyers are responsible for the death row delay mess as they are for most of the problems and solutions in the USA!
 
#14
If the American system got its house in order and the death sentence once passed HAS to be carried out within , I don't know, 3 Sundays as ours was, would that then have an effect on the behaviour of criminals.

Those convicted knowing that it will all end for them within 21 days.
 
#15
Some people just deserve it - I wonder if you were related to a victim of some of these oxygen thieves, you would reconsider?
That's is a valid point. It's easy to preach forgiveness when you have nothing to forgive. But I find it wrong that a government says it's wrong to kill in cold blood but then carry out a state sponsored killing.
I don't think the death penalty deters a lot of murders. Although it does reduce the reoffending rate some what.

Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
#17
That's is a valid point. It's easy to preach forgiveness when you have nothing to forgive. But I find it wrong that a government says it's wrong to kill in cold blood but then carry out a state sponsored killing.
I don't think the death penalty deters a lot of murders. Although it does reduce the reoffending rate some what.

Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk
If it doesn't work, why do they appeal the final sentence being carried out so much? Its a rare case one of them says hurry up and do it, although it does happen.

They definitely don't re-offend after the sentence...
 
#19
OK , playing a bit of a Devils Advocate here.

MURDER. - what if the killing was because of the lifestyle of the victim AND offender IE Gangs / drugs etc.
Does that justify the death sentence when those people, if taken out of that environment can have a realistic chance of rehabilitation.

Domestic murder where the spouse has caught the partner shagging around and loses the plot.

Child murder / serial killers - these people we know cannot ever be rehabilitated and have committed the most heinous of crimes.

Thoughts on the above Gents.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
suspended sentence for all of them, by the neck of course
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top