Death penalty and human rights

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by DieHard, Jul 9, 2013.

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  1. DieHard

    DieHard LE Book Reviewer

    The European court of human rights has got involved in the British judical system again with its ruling that life sentences should not be for life and that the prisoner should have some hope of release with reviews of the sentence
    http://news.sky.com/story/1113395/whole-life-inmates-win-human-rights-victory

    This has got me thinking that with the increasing technology available in forensic science and the reduced chance of miscariage of justice, could or should the death penalty be re-intraduced?
    Some crimes are so horrendus that the perpatrator should never see daylight again, and in these cases and with irrevocable evidence ( look back to woolwich ),
    should the ultimate penalty apply?
    I used to be against the death penalty but the thought of some of the worst murderers and peadophiles and rapist walking free just sickens me.
    Mistakes have been made in
    the past that would make the need for evidence to be water tight to prevent it from being repeated again.
    Obviously this is a highly contriversial and sensitive subject, but whenever i have spoken to people over the last couple of months they all tend to say that the death penalty should be bought back.
    In theory i agree but i still have that niggling doubt about misscariage of justice issues.
    What are your thoughts on this?
    For instance the woolwich murderers were filmed, boasted about it and wanted everyone to see there crime, should they have the right to a review of sentence? serve under 20 years? Or be put to death?
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    edited due to posting before finished
     
  2. Did your brain just stop working about there?

    Or did you mean to fin
     
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  3. DieHard

    DieHard LE Book Reviewer

    Bloody phone went blank and when switched on it had been posted before finishing. sorry

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  4. I thought "life" sentences were for an indeterminate period, with a 'minimum to be served' before review element, so there is the theoretical possibility of release for every prisoner. Re the death penalty, no. You can cut out errors of misidentification, but there will always be the possibility of deliberate contamination of evidence by corrupt police officers. You can never remove that element, so there will never be a 100% guarantee that every conviction is as sold. Once the state has murdered someone, which, is what I hold the deliberate killing of someone, innocent or not, is, it's a bit late to say "Oops, our bad" later. Then what do you intend to do? Kill everyone who had a chance to contaminate the evidence with the convicting dna / fingerprint / etc? What if you can't point at a single piece of evidence, after 30 or 40 years, and say "that's the exact bit of evidence used to acquire the 'murder by state instrument' killing?" There's obviously at least one specific, possibly identifiable, murderer wandering about, it's just that they used the nation to commit the murder they wanted done, rather than bloodying their own hands.

    Please don't be stupid enough to try claiming there's not one copper in the country, and won't be, until the end of time, that wouldn't, as there's plenty enough examples of trainee, serving and ex- coppers convicted of pretty much every crime going to counter that idiotic claim.
     
  5. Reduced, but still a possibility. It's the ultimate miscarriage of justice, and not worth the risk.
     
  6. Here's one of only a few reasons why we should never have the death penalty:

    Murder of Lesley Molseed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There are quite a few others. We still live in an age where police officers will lie, hide, or tamper with evidence. If you track the ability of the current crop through a HMIC publication called 'Stop the Drift 2' (it's on line), you'll see just how incompetent our police are. 'Stop the Drift (1)' addressed police management. Most of them haven't a clue about the laws which they are paid to uphold and this is a worry for HMIC. 70% of offences are summary offences. A substantial amount of summary cases are dropped by CPS or thrown out by Magistrates, because the police cannot fill in the paperwork correctly, or as is often the case, they can't be bothered to. In any other line of employment they'd have been sacked. May, has a point with the police and much as I dislike the woman, she has good reason to make the changes that she intends to make. The lack of knowledge of the law within the police is such a major issue that the College of Policing have been tasked to sort it out. Incompetence and corruption. The police are full of it. Look at the corruption scandals over the past 5-6 years (you can go back further) to see just what a bunch of crooked ****ers there are in the Police Executive. It's no wonder that lawyers have a field day with them. They continually roll out the tired old claims that they are hard done by and that every barrel has at least one bad apple, well that's just pure bollocks. There are far too many of them willing to bend or rewrite the rules to suit themselves, and then they manage to delay enquiries into their own conduct just long enough to ensure that they get away with their pensions. Look at Cleveland Police and North Yorkshire Police (there are others) for examples of how these people operate. You wonder who the real criminals are sometimes. Some of them are even willing to stitch up their own...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130597/Asian-policeman-jailed-crime-didnt-commit-gets-850-000-compensation-framed-racist-colleagues.html

    As for Kiszko, the girls who lied about him were confronted in adulthood and each refused to apologise. The Senior Investigating Officer in that case was the bloke who bought into 'Wearside Jack' the hoaxer who disrupted the Yorkshire Ripper investigations, because he was unwilling to remain open minded about the investigation and hence, other murders occurred. He had previous for incompetence in other high profile investigations. If you don't think that such narrow minded, incompetent thinking would happen today, just google DCI Riordan who's utter stupidity recently cost Cleveland Police £500,000 in damages, @£1m in costs, a figure which stands to be repeated at least 4 times (other claimants) because he was a bloody minded twat who believed that he was above the law he was paid to uphold. He managed to get away with his pension as did every other member of Cleveland Police who has been involved in corrupt practice or indeed, crime. And you would trust these people to produce the evidence with which someone would be killed judicially?

    Here he is..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22452157

    That's all tax payers money going down the pan.

    We will never return to the death penalty, no matter how many threads appear here (how many is it now?) which is probably a very good thing.
     
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  8. DieHard

    DieHard LE Book Reviewer

    A very valid point, i was a prison officer and a lot of cons claimed they were stitched, most were just bitter at being caught but in my dealings with some of them, their conviction did seem a bit dubious.
    Most of the lifers comply inside and play the prisoner game well and to all appearences are very amiable, but few are unrepentant and some are just plain dangerous.
    I thank you for your view and agree with quite a bit and up until recently my own views were the same as yours, but after years of seeing people being released only to kill or rape again, i feel they should not have had the chance to do so. And the woolwich killers taunted everyone with no doubt of guilt, should they have the right to walk free in 20 years?
    A life tarrif used to be for 99 years with a reccomendation of a minimum term of say 20 years. time could and used to be added within the tarrif up to the 99 years, kray twins for example.
    Now most prison governors can only add 28 days and the circuit judges dont, cant or wont increase the sentence within the tarrif.


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  9. It's currently banned under UK law. We stopped hanging people for treason, piracy and arson in a RN dockyard in war time when the Equality and Human Rights act was brought in by Cherie Blair, err, sorry I mean the Blair government, in 1998.

    It's also barred by the European Convention so we'd have to drop out of the EU and the Council of Europe to reintroduce hanging.
     
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  10. How about if you're found to have committed perjury and someone's wrongly convicted of something, you automatically face the same penalty?
     
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  11. Yes, you just need to invent a time machine, go back and observe the crime being committed.
     
  12. Luckily Texas in the US of A have no such qualms.

    I had an entertaining hour yesterday morning working my way down this list.....

    Death Row Information
     
  13. Why not dispense with the trials,and just make them take a Jeremy Kyle lie detector test.If they fail execute them.It'll save the tax payers a bomb.