DEALING WITH DRUG ADDICTS: A POISONED CHALICE?

I agree totally, I was merely pointing out in my experience it acts as an emetic, and was always prescribed as an analgesic but having unfortunate side effects.
Co-codamol makes me heave. Years ago a mate gave me Tramadol after I came off my bicycle and was in a lot of pain. Couldn’t keep a thing down; my friend ate them like smarties.
Aren‘t all these drugs processed through the liver? (Apologies if previously discussed). In my case, that would make sense. Years of boozing might mean mine are compromised. I wouldn’t be surprised if my liver couldn’t cope with strong drugs on top (and my point here is that Tramadol etc are strong drugs).
We all have different metabolisms.
 
I often see heroin addicts projectile vomit immediately after smoking heroin, and occasionally after injecting. I've yet to catch it on camera. As heroin and tramadol are both opiods I would imagine tramadol could technically induce vomiting.
When I was copper in North Wales (Heroin-on-sea) in the late 1990s, I would deal with lots of overdoses (me and all my colleagues). Lots of the deaths we dealt with had other dependency issues, the main one being alcohol. IMO, lots of the others had other issues. The main ones for me being the lonely, depressed (you could include hopeless single mum here) and using on top of prescribed meds. Chaotic lifestyles. People living hand-to-mouth.
Anyway, most deaths had vomit involved, especially with any alcohol involved. Sometimes not much alcohol, just a can or two. But a rapid deceleration in breathing with a reflux can make all the difference.
And, as Coroners Officer on plenty of occasions, I would take statements saying the deceased was ‘in a good place’ or ‘getting off’, ‘calming in down’. Still drowned/asphyxiated.
The worst/saddest? Those who got clean for a bit, and then jumped back in where they left off. Immediate overdose.
 
You don’t have to be a Guardianista to think your nuts. This was the sort of thing the Nazis got up to how long in your utopia would it just be addicts or and underclass before you end up reciting “and then they came for me”

Policies like that were common in some Western democracies until quite recently (1970s in some cases). The Nazis sent experts abroad to study them.

Preventing drug addicted criminals and equally chaotic and wicked people from having children (who they will neglect and brutalise) isn't a long march to Auschwitz, it's basic common sense and social responsibility.

Sterilising paedophiles who want to breed new victims, or forcing a drug addicted prostitute, who burned her last baby with cigarettes, to get a contraceptive implant, will not lead to an "and then they came for me" situation.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
When I was copper in North Wales (Heroin-on-sea) in the late 1990s, I would deal with lots of overdoses (me and all my colleagues). Lots of the deaths we dealt with had other dependency issues, the main one being alcohol. IMO, lots of the others had other issues. The main ones for me being the lonely, depressed (you could include hopeless single mum here) and using on top of prescribed meds. Chaotic lifestyles. People living hand-to-mouth.
Anyway, most deaths had vomit involved, especially with any alcohol involved. Sometimes not much alcohol, just a can or two. But a rapid deceleration in breathing with a reflux can make all the difference.
And, as Coroners Officer on plenty of occasions, I would take statements saying the deceased was ‘in a good place’ or ‘getting off’, ‘calming in down’. Still drowned/asphyxiated.
The worst/saddest? Those who got clean for a bit, and then jumped back in where they left off. Immediate overdose.
It’s why people are more stable on decent doses of Methadone. Start reducing and the problems start, have to wait until they feel ready to feel life’s awfulness again. Very slow reduction is the way. If people haven’t used for some time and are high risk of relapse a slow reinduction to Methadone prevents overdose and death.
 
Makes a lot of sense.

If I was going to spend money on anything apart from education, it would be on preventing the criminal underclass (and teenagers and anybody in fragile circumstances) from breeding.

Anybody with a conviction for child abuse, serious or habitual domestic violence, or child neglect would go straight from court to hospital for compulsory sterilisation.

Long term contraceptive implants (3-5 year doses) should be compulsory for any women receiving community sentences, or upon release from prison, who are judged unfit to be mothers. If the technology becomes available, men should face the same treatment. It's utterly wrong for a crack addicted prostitute to have babies, or for a habitual criminal to impregnate half a dozen feckless teenagers during his brief periods of liberty.

The Guardianistas would have an orgasm of rage if this became policy, but it would dramatically reduce the number of junkies within a generation.


That's the real joke, intelligent and hard working people are having 1-2 kids at most (if any at all) because that's usually the amount most working families can afford to support.

All the gutter trash breed like rabbits and have 5+ kids before the age of 25 without any intention of ever supporting them or providing any love and attention.

We're being outbred by idiots.
 
That's the real joke, intelligent and hard working people are having 1-2 kids at most (if any at all) because that's usually the amount most working families can afford to support.

All the gutter trash breed like rabbits and have 5+ kids before the age of 25 without any intention of ever supporting them or providing any love and attention.

We're being outbred by idiots.
You know the answer to that.
 

Old Stab

LE
Book Reviewer
When I was copper in North Wales (Heroin-on-sea) in the late 1990s, I would deal with lots of overdoses (me and all my colleagues). Lots of the deaths we dealt with had other dependency issues, the main one being alcohol. IMO, lots of the others had other issues. The main ones for me being the lonely, depressed (you could include hopeless single mum here) and using on top of prescribed meds. Chaotic lifestyles. People living hand-to-mouth.
Anyway, most deaths had vomit involved, especially with any alcohol involved. Sometimes not much alcohol, just a can or two. But a rapid deceleration in breathing with a reflux can make all the difference.
And, as Coroners Officer on plenty of occasions, I would take statements saying the deceased was ‘in a good place’ or ‘getting off’, ‘calming in down’. Still drowned/asphyxiated.
The worst/saddest? Those who got clean for a bit, and then jumped back in where they left off. Immediate overdose.
The reflux thing happened to me the other night.. Friday. No work the following day so I had a few ciders.. A few more than usual, woke with a start and felt that horrible acid like burning feeling in my mouth.. I had been fast asleep until that point
 
It’s why people are more stable on decent doses of Methadone. Start reducing and the problems start, have to wait until they feel ready to feel life’s awfulness again. Very slow reduction is the way. If people haven’t used for some time and are high risk of relapse a slow reinduction to Methadone prevents overdose and death.
I’ll go back to my coppering days again. I used to work with a bloke who said “ there for the Grace of God…” and one day, I asked him the R Question. He said he was bought up in a faith, left it as a teenager. Now seeing dead bodies day in and day out is, erm, interesting for people in their twenties. I have no faith in anything or anyone but the jelly on my shoulders.
My colleague said something like ‘we all make decisions, some good, some bad’. No-one knows where trying a tablet in a club, or smoking something at a party might lead.
The street smackhead? Park bench alike? People who may have tried the wrong thing, and it lead them down the wrong street.
If anyone on here can tell me strait they have led the clear path and never attempted or tried anything out of the ordinary, I’d call them a liar.
Most of us just get away with it.
 
The reflux thing happened to me the other night.. Friday. No work the following day so I had a few ciders.. A few more than usual, woke with a start and felt that horrible acid like burning feeling in my mouth.. I had been fast asleep until that point
If that’s a one off, then never mind. If it continues, then the usual middle-aged bloke advice kicks in: get it looked at!
if @Old Stab is not middle-aged, I will feel short-changed.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
I’ll go back to my coppering days again. I used to work with a bloke who said “ there for the Grace of God…” and one day, I asked him the R Question. He said he was bought up in a faith, left it as a teenager. Now seeing dead bodies day in and day out is, erm, interesting for people in their twenties. I have no faith in anything or anyone but the jelly on my shoulders.
My colleague said something like ‘we all make decisions, some good, some bad’. No-one knows where trying a tablet in a club, or smoking something at a party might lead.
The street smackhead? Park bench alike? People who may have tried the wrong thing, and it lead them down the wrong street.
If anyone on here can tell me strait they have led the clear path and never attempted or tried anything out of the ordinary, I’d call them a liar.
Most of us just get away with it.
Indeed, one wrong decision can mean death. There’s organisations that test drugs for free at festivals. We shouldn’t see death of young, bright kids over one very strong pill of one containing something else. They’re someone’s kid and barely had a life.
 
Policies like that were common in some Western democracies until quite recently (1970s in some cases). The Nazis sent experts abroad to study them.

Preventing drug addicted criminals and equally chaotic and wicked people from having children (who they will neglect and brutalise) isn't a long march to Auschwitz, it's basic common sense and social responsibility.

Sterilising paedophiles who want to breed new victims, or forcing a drug addicted prostitute, who burned her last baby with cigarettes, to get a contraceptive implant, will not lead to an "and then they came for me" situation.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m not defending the cases you’ve described but it’s a rocky road about who’ll decide on who’s fit and unfit for chemical modification and as we’ve seen with the latest slavery/colonisation bandwagon these things grow legs and half of arrse would soon be queueing up for state sponsored lobotomies for thought crimes.
 

Mr_Baiter

War Hero
My Mrs teaches special needs children and currently specialises in those with attachment disorders and/or suffering from neglect. There is a huge amount of evidence now that neglect/abuse/trauma in childhood leads to addiction or other mental health diseases in adulthood. These can be surprisingly trivial triggers- it doesn't need to be outright physical or mental abuse - it can stem from the loss of a relative or even a pet. The key is in how the adults in the child's life approach the situation themselves, if kids feel supported and valued and can count on the adults in their lives then setbacks can be overcome but if the child's adult connections respond badly themselves or show no concern for the child then these childhood traumas can manifest as criminality, most often addictive behaviours - the addiction takes the place of support and nurture. Drugs and alcohol are just the anaesthetic of choice to escape the misery of existing.

I used to share the zero tolerance, hang all junkies and dealers approach but the evidence does not support that as a successful means of dealing with it - it only placates the Daily Express/Daily Mail gang. My wife's experience of working with the vulnerable has changed my views completely.

I notice that those working close to addicts are more likely to look at the causes to understand the routes and roots of addiction while those who just see them (or read about them in the Daily Mail) rather than understand them tend to advocate more draconian and probably unrealistic measures.

The pragmatic approach is to accept that people become addicted for many reasons and that simply punishing them doesn't address the cause.

I'd rather see regulated legalisation than the current approach - it hasn't worked yet and is very unlikely ever to work. Pragmatism rather than idealism.
 
When I was copper in North Wales (Heroin-on-sea) in the late 1990s, I would deal with lots of overdoses (me and all my colleagues). Lots of the deaths we dealt with had other dependency issues, the main one being alcohol. IMO, lots of the others had other issues. The main ones for me being the lonely, depressed (you could include hopeless single mum here) and using on top of prescribed meds. Chaotic lifestyles. People living hand-to-mouth.
Anyway, most deaths had vomit involved, especially with any alcohol involved. Sometimes not much alcohol, just a can or two. But a rapid deceleration in breathing with a reflux can make all the difference.
And, as Coroners Officer on plenty of occasions, I would take statements saying the deceased was ‘in a good place’ or ‘getting off’, ‘calming in down’. Still drowned/asphyxiated.
The worst/saddest? Those who got clean for a bit, and then jumped back in where they left off. Immediate overdose.
We see it a lot, just been released from prison and lost thier tolerance.
 

endure

GCM
My dad bailed out when I was 15.

I started taking drugs shortly after. Coincidence? Dunno.

In the next 7 years I caused my Mum untold grief which I'll never forgive myself for.

OD'd twice, died once and was crashed back to life.

I'm still here because of a DS from GMP drug squad and a probation officer both of who I'll never forget and will be eternally grateful to.

I like to think I've made up for my youthful stupidity by leading a reasonably blameless life apart from a propensity for red wine and the occasional veiny treat ;-)
 
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enpointe

Old-Salt
Can you show times where tramadol is prescribed to induce vomiting? I've never heard of it being used as an emetic.

What tramadol does do is act at opioid receptors and produces similar effects to morphine and heroin; the main one in medicine being analgesia.
quite clear you have no clinical experience or it seems any semblance of sense of humour - tramadol is well known for making people puke
 
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The reflux thing happened to me the other night.. Friday. No work the following day so I had a few ciders.. A few more than usual, woke with a start and felt that horrible acid like burning feeling in my mouth.. I had been fast asleep until that point
Had it for a while, changed my eating and drinking habits drastically.
I used to gobble antacids like smarties, and was knocking down omeprazole at a silly rate.
Changed the diet (far far too much processed junk), cut back on the booze, and rate of drinking, and haven't had a problem since.
 

Old Stab

LE
Book Reviewer
Had it for a while, changed my eating and drinking habits drastically.
I used to gobble antacids like smarties, and was knocking down omeprazole at a silly rate.
Changed the diet (far far too much processed junk), cut back on the booze, and rate of drinking, and haven't had a problem since.
Only happened once, and that was after drinking some pretty cheeky cider. I don't tend to kick the Arrse out of it these days, for a start the hangovers are terrible and I am usually driving first thing so I stay off the pop.
 
quite clear you have no clinical experience or it seems any semblance of sense of humour - tramadol is well known for making people puke
What clinical experience do you have that you have prescribed or seen tramadol prescribed as an emetic?

You don't because it isn't. You won't respond with an actual answer or admit you were talking bollocks. Standby for your next content free attempt at being patronising...
 

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