Deal or Raw Deal for TA soldiers?

#1
My regiment is currently employing a number of TA soldiers in recruiting posts on a full time basis. I say full time in that they work 5 days a week, just as a regular soldier might in a similar post. However, unlike the regular army who are paid 7 days a week, these TA soldier are paid man training days for their work and subsequently come away with only 5 days pay. Also, as they're paid only man training days and not mobilised, they don't enjoy the same benefits that a regular soldier or a mobilised TA soldier would.

Is this correct use of the system? And if not, should it continue or should such appointments be filled with soldiers on FTRS?
 
#2
My TA infantry unit in the North Yorkshire area does the same thing in that we have at least two chaps doing this full time(MTD's not FTRS), primarily promoting our regular unit so why should we have to provide recruiters for them? I've seen them rocking up in town centres all over our regimental recruiting area - a few will mill around town taking in 'brekky' and shopping in Dixons whilst someone mans the caravan, so surely volunteers at the regular Bn would be easy to find?!!

It baffles me why but this goes back to the old issue of saving money - the MOD bean counters are not stupid and they know that they can call on their 'casual workers' for jobs just like this knowing that the soldier who volunteers has virtually no rights and can be dispensed with at any time without notice!!
 
#3
Seems like a good deal to me - everyone else gets paid five days pay for doing five days work...

msr
 
#4
msr said:
Seems like a good deal to me - everyone else gets paid five days pay for doing five days work...

msr
Fair point mate but our regular friends do still get their X Factor at full rates! Our TA bods that I mentioned are relatively new and are only on around £30 a day - they don't get X Factor!! I think the TA should at least get this benefit at the lower band to compensate for the disruption to family life(creates a lot of strife in the marital home), liability for Telic/Herrick etc.
 
#5
My tuppence worth...

I think its fair to say that the TA and Regular army have different target markets. Those people that are in the right age range that are hanging around town centres on a Mon - Fri between 9 and 5 are probably most suited to the Regular Army.

Those people that are best suited to the TA are more than likely working in between those hours and are therefore not likely to be caught by our recruiting teams except perhaps in their lunch breaks?!?

I think it would be interesting to see how many recruits for the TA that TA soldiers employed in this manner bring in. It raises another general concern of mine and that is 'Full time TA soldiers'. I hate this concept and aren't quite sure why people are allowed to do it.

From time to time I have a need to pop into the TAC to sort some admin etc (unpaid of course as i'm only in for 30 minutes tops) and the amount of work being done is *ahem* limited. So in addition to the PSAO, 2 x PSIs, SQMS, AO and 2 civilians there is also a requirement for anywhere between 1 and 5 TA soldiers to be in there what seems like all the time?!?!

Anyway, I digress, my point being I'm not sure how useful this is for the TA as an individual entity. I do however, appreciate what an excellent tool it may be for the Regular Army as it provides cheap manpower (It costs 2xdays a week less than a regular soldier) whilst not detracting from their numbers in any way.
 
#6
I have to agree with msr, these people know what they get paid and do it on a voulantry basis. If these individuals are workin for the TA 'full time' then why not join the regular army? Then they would recieve x-factor and get paid 7 days a week. You cannot argue that regular service is not for them and then claim that they are doing the same job. Cutsy bear in mind these MTD's will also probably be counted towards their bounty (which their regular counterparts do not recieve) and this is the financial incentive to be in the TA and liable for mobilisation.
 
#7
If these individuals are workin for the TA 'full time' then why not join the regular army?
Because they want to do that particular posting for a few months rather than joining the regular army for years and being sent all over the shop - bear in mind many of them will have done their fair share of tours.

5 days pay does seem "fair enough" - except when you compare that a regular soldier doing the same job, on the same daily rate, gets paid 2 days more and has a shedload of benefits thrown his way.

My main question was, is it correct use of the system to pay people 5 days man training days rather than employ them on FTRS? If so, why do FTRS positions exist at all?
 
G

Goku

Guest
#8
Don’t these TA recruiters have real jobs?
Presumably not if they have time to work 5 days a week for the TA.

I would guess they’re either hard up for cash right now and are grateful for the work thrown their way or they’re doing it out of love for their unit.

If money is an issue then either sign up on the doal or get a proper job like the rest of us, the TA will never pay the bills unless you’re on FTRS or mobilise.
 
#9
RFUK said:
bear in mind many of them will have done their fair share of tours
Cutsy said:
Our TA bods that I mentioned are relatively new and are only on around £30 a day
:roll:

If they do not want to put up with the 'inconvenience' of full time service they should not demand the benefits that come with serving as a regular. As I said prviously they voulnteer for this and are not forced into it.
 
#10
If they don't want the work, there's always the Job Centre.

To be honest, are these the best guys to be out recruiting for your unit? How long have they been doing it for? How many recruits have they brought in?

Seems like the PSAO is doing them a favour by helping them out with a bit of work and they should be grateful.

FTRS positions have to be justified and I can't see that happening for a bit of 'black hand gang' work.

msr
 
#11
They should be grateful to be offered the work. I f they dont want it they dont have to take it.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#12
call_me_jack said:
these MTD's will also probably be counted towards their bounty (which their regular counterparts do not recieve) and this is the financial incentive to be in the TA and liable for mobilisation.
You must be joking.

The full bounty works out as less than a months wage in your average office job.
It’s a nice little bonus but certainly not an incentive.
 
#13
Goku said:
call_me_jack said:
these MTD's will also probably be counted towards their bounty (which their regular counterparts do not recieve) and this is the financial incentive to be in the TA and liable for mobilisation.
You must be joking.

The full bounty works out as less than a months wage in your average office job.
It’s a nice little bonus but certainly not an incentive.
Well its there, you know how much you get, nobody pressgangs you into the TA. If the thought of being mobilised is too mch for somebody they may want to review their involvement in the modern reserve forces (perhaps paintballing, airsoft or military re-enactments may be more suitable) :wink:
 
G

Goku

Guest
#14
call_me_jack said:
Goku said:
call_me_jack said:
these MTD's will also probably be counted towards their bounty (which their regular counterparts do not recieve) and this is the financial incentive to be in the TA and liable for mobilisation.
You must be joking.

The full bounty works out as less than a months wage in your average office job.
It’s a nice little bonus but certainly not an incentive.
Well its there, you know how much you get, nobody pressgangs you into the TA. If the thought of being mobilised is too mch for somebody they may want to review their involvement in the modern reserve forces (perhaps paintballing, airsoft or military re-enactments may be more suitable) :wink:
I wasn’t commenting on mobilisation, once you sign on the dotted line you’ve already volunteered :wink:

I just don’t think the bounty is anything more than a nice little bonus for working hard over the year and achieving the minimum standards.
Anyone who joins or stays in the TA for the bounty should think about what they’re in it for.
 
#15
OK fair one I think I got the wrong end of the stick but still the better side of £1400 (as a tax free bonus) is not available in most part time jobs that you get payed for anyway. Better than a poke in the eye but as you say not a reason to do it if you dont like the job (there are easier ways to earn money, if you are willing to rent your hoop out).
 
#16
msr said:
Seems like the PSAO is doing them a favour by helping them out with a bit of work and they should be grateful.
blimey log off for a minute and all hell breaks loose.

RFUK is right working Mon-Fri 9-5 does leave you working longer hours than a regular for far less pay (5 days not seven, plus your not getting X factor and your hours are probably longer)

msr is also correct, they should get a proper job, but does RFUKs comments mean that many of those volunteering are doing so for better pay and the experience (I have seen this)? I think that some in this group should be taken on as regular, to treat them this badly but be very keen to employ them is just wrong.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#17
They not being treated badly.

It’s volunteer work, they choose to spend 5+ days recruiting and they knew how much they would be paid for it.
They’ve either decided to take time off from their real jobs to help with recruiting or they’re unemployed and an extra £40 a day is a nice little incentive for them.

Your PASO can’t order you to work Monday to Friday recruiting, all he can do is ask and you have the choice of saying yes or no.
 
#18
Cutsy

when I was a member of your unit our problem was always limiting the people who wanted to do full time.

There are a lot of issues about TA pay and conditions, giving more days pay to the ones who can do five days a week isn't one of them.
 
#19
Some time ago I realised that us volunteers are just as guilty as our Regular colleagues of stoking the embers of the ARABS v STABS fire to ensure it stays alight. As mushroom says, there are areas where our complaints are justified, and there are areas where we whinge simply because we assume we are always treated as second rate soldiers - its a corrosive and central part of our culture. This one, IMHO, falls into the second category.
 
#20
RFUK said:
Is this correct use of the system? And if not, should it continue or should such appointments be filled with soldiers on FTRS?
RF, I'm in a similar situation and there are pros and cons to the FTRS/MTD debate. I'm better off on MTDs than I would be if I were on FTRS. But that's just my personal circumstances.

The official line I've been given is that I can be employed on MTDs for a maximum of 220 days. If my post is likely to extend beyond that, I should be transferred to FTRS from the outset. After 117 days, I'm entitled to 1 week of paid leave. In my case, it wasn't clear at the start that I would be here so long, so I wasn't offered the FTRS option and now it's too late. The only real concerns for me are the taxation and pension implications.

I have been working 5 days a week in a regular role and am (quite rightly) paid pro-rata for it. I don't have to do duties or evenings often and if I'm asked to work weekends, I can claim for it. On FTRS, I wouldn't have that kind of flexibility.
 

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