Dead Female Soldier Inadequately Trained

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by FiveAlpha, Mar 9, 2010.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. The first female British soldier to die in Afghanistan had been "inadequately" trained and was killed unlawfully while on active service, a coroner has said.

    Corporal Sarah Bryant, Corporal Sean Reeve, Lance Corporal Richard Larkin and Paul Stout died when their Snatch Landrover hit a bomb during an operation near Lashkar Gah in June 2008.
    The six-day inquest into the deaths, held at Trowbridge Town Hall in Wiltshire, heard a string of criticisms of their equipment and training.

    Sky News
  2. Inadequately trained? How would training have affected the outcome?
  3. Apparently there's more findings to follow. I agree though. Regardless of training the end result is the same.
  4. Unlawfully killed - Absolutely. Insurgent detonated device.

    Inadequately trained - WTF? Asside from route selection etc (which I would guess Cpl Bryant had little imput) No level of training would have prevented the team being taken out by an IED whilst sitting in a soft skin vehicle...........

    Sadly casualties on operations DO happen and this current blame game fixation serves little purpose.

    Lest we forget
  5. Perhaps there's some aspect that has not been brought to light? Hard to imagine that the coroner just made it up for something to say - must have been some reason to mention it. Perhaps the findings will clarify it.
  6. Have to agree there must be more to this than meets the eye. Out of interest has that finding that insufficient training directly contributed to any of the other Soldier killed on active service.
  7. PM has just reported that none of them were trained to use metal detectors. No idea on the TTP, and if she would use it 'normally'.

    Having just come from a study about assessing personal preparedness, there is an issue about placing people in to positions without the correct training. It may not be current SOPs to make person X use the metal detector, but if (correct operator) person Y is hurt/killed/on R&R how do we ensure those left behind can complete the task. There is a sensible level of redundancy to be gained, and in a 4 man patrol it may, or may not, be appropriate to train all 4.

    You could have a (sensible) debate over risk carried, and how we know a) where that risk is, and b) who is 'carrying' the risk, although I doubt ARRSE is the correct forum to achieve this.
  8. The media have grabbed attention with the catchy headline, but that is what they are about - catch the eye of the viewer/reader with a good sound bite or stark headline.

    To all previous posters: Good, level-headed comments all round, let's wait and see what other information the coroner has which led to his conclusion. I really hope this thread doesn't degenerate, and in agreeance with a previous poster - "Lest we forget".

  9. oldbaldy

    oldbaldy LE Moderator Good Egg (charities)
    1. Battlefield Tours

    I think he may have been refering to this:


    The meedja, of course, pick up on the one high profile person rather than the whole patrol
  10. Didn't the OC of the Sqn resign over this ref Snatch?
  11. oldbaldy

    oldbaldy LE Moderator Good Egg (charities)
    1. Battlefield Tours

  12. I've never seen the "How to survive a catastrophic IED while in a snatch"
  13. I thought she was a passenger on the way to a HUMINT tasking. I doubt knowing how to use an Ebex would have helped her very much, unless they were using a version with an 80ft handle.

    Everybody knows that snatches are gash. But as the saying goes, "you can only p1ss with the cock you've got". The option at that time was to walk out there or take a snatch. You can't sit around inside the wire waiting for somebody to procure a bushmaster for every soldier.

    War is a bad and nasty thing, which is why you get a rifle, body armour and a helmet. The Falklands was won by guys wearing cardboard boots, tin hats and OG shirts. You can't have all the kit you want.

    The best protection she could have gone for was a toyota corolla and a burqa. But as always, the popular answer seems to be to buy bigger and heavier vehicles, which are not available off the shelf and are often more likely to have devices initiated against them. At the time the incident happened IEDs had only recently come into the equation with all available assets being sent to Iraq, where the threat was considerably greater.

    There won't be a happy ending for this - 4 guys are dead and the families want answers. There are no answers and blame achieves little.
  14. 'Hard to imagine that the coroner just made it up for something to say - must have been some reason to mention it.'

    This is why the government have been trying to slip little clauses into a number of bills going through parliament seeking to muzzle coroners. Whist the supine Commons have been nodding them through, the Lords, to their credit, have thrown them out. Unfortunately, it looks like their persistence will pay off this year, with the clause being passed under the umbrella of another bill.