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DCS 15

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#1
I know its along time ago and memories fade, but who did take the legs away from the AMS?

Who sanctioned the dismemberment of the QEMH, DKMH and CMH?

Who decided the cutbacks within the AMS?

Are they still serving, if so no names.

Was it some bean counting manderin in MoD?

Just wondered.
 
#3
BD

Can only agree, DCS was the end of DMS as a separate entity from being tied in to the NHS. There is plenty of comment on how a mil hosp is unviable because the DMS cannot keep clinicians up to date and provide the necessary experience. Its all money and treasury led, you could have a military hospital with clinicians gaining experience by working for periods in other facilities but at a price that most of the hierarcy of the day didnt or wouldnt spend. Our NATO allies have got rid of all their Mil Hosps havnt they?
 
#4
ronin said:
BD

Can only agree, DCS was the end of DMS as a separate entity from being tied in to the NHS. There is plenty of comment on how a mil hosp is unviable because the DMS cannot keep clinicians up to date and provide the necessary experience. Its all money and treasury led, you could have a military hospital with clinicians gaining experience by working for periods in other facilities but at a price that most of the hierarcy of the day didnt or wouldnt spend. Our NATO allies have got rid of all their Mil Hosps havnt they?


Not so, the vast majority of NATO forces have thier own military hospitals, and not just NATO forces, France (NATOish) has seven one of which is regarded as one of the finest haemotology units in the world, the one that Yaser Arafat was treated in.
 
#6
Don't these countries still run conscription? If you force someone to do something against there will, I would say you have an additional duty of care to ensure they are looked after. Lets not forget the UK military is voluntary.
 
#8
smithy749 said:
Don't these countries still run conscription? If you force someone to do something against there will, I would say you have an additional duty of care to ensure they are looked after. Lets not forget the UK military is voluntary.
I see your point, but does that mean you think there is a lower duty of care to the UK regulars?

I'd think it was the same - you have to look after your employees who are at risk of "industrial" injuries, whether that's a sprained ankle gained on a tab or a newly acquired bullet hole.

FF.
 
#9
Friendly_Fire said:
I see your point, but does that mean you think there is a lower duty of care to the UK regulars?
That seems to be the main point of this government, the duty of care to the British service man or woman is scandalous to say the least, especially once they reach these shores and are thrown to the NHS.

As outlined earlier by Ronin, the only thing keeping it back is an unwillingness to shell out the cash to get us a military hospital. Back in the days, prior to DCS-15, QEMH was the envy of the SE of London. All the civvies wanted to go there because of the standard of care. Between all the military hospitals, almost every speciality was covered, so the lack of training point was a blatant lie.

Unfortunately this government will not admit to making a mistake but just spout out pure spin and if they try the military run wards, like Frimley Park had, see them fill with over 65's and the difficult patients. :evil:
 
#10
dui-lai said:
Between all the military hospitals, almost every speciality was covered, so the lack of training point was a blatant lie. :
Not too sure about that D-L. I think we lost our Teaching Hospital status because the volume and range of cases in each hospital was not enough to give our doctors the bredth of experience of their civvy counterparts. Once the Teaching Hospital status went, the demise of the military hospitals was pretty inevitable.
 
#11
Phillip-Kotler said:
dui-lai said:
Between all the military hospitals, almost every speciality was covered, so the lack of training point was a blatant lie. :
Not too sure about that D-L. I think we lost our Teaching Hospital status because the volume and range of cases in each hospital was not enough to give our doctors the bredth of experience of their civvy counterparts. Once the Teaching Hospital status went, the demise of the military hospitals was pretty inevitable.
Please don't fall for that old chestnut. The CMH by itself covered a vast variety of specialties i.e. Paediatrics, Gynaecology, Obstetrics, A&E, general medical, orthopaedics. The QEMH covered burns & plastics, orthopaedics, oncology, psychiatry and a medical ward too. There was sufficient Consultant cover in those areas and training was in conjunction with some of the big London hospitals. So the premise of " lack of expertise and training" doesn't hold. It was purely financial. I could rant about the amount of patients the CMH saw on a daily basis but it brings back the nightmares of when I was on-call there :frustrated:
 
#12
dui-lai said:
Please don't fall for that old chestnut. The CMH by itself covered a vast variety of specialties i.e. Paediatrics, Gynaecology, Obstetrics, A&E, general medical, orthopaedics. The QEMH covered burns & plastics, orthopaedics, oncology, psychiatry and a medical ward too. There was sufficient Consultant cover in those areas and training was in conjunction with some of the big London hospitals. So the premise of " lack of expertise and training" doesn't hold. It was purely financial. I could rant about the amount of patients the CMH saw on a daily basis but it brings back the nightmares of when I was on-call there :frustrated:
Quite right, the specialities were there, but (as stated above) I'm sure the volume (or lack of) of cases was a big driver towards the loss of Teaching Hospital status.

dui-lai said:
I could rant about the amount of patients the CMH saw on a daily basis :
D-L; ranting - I can't believe that! However, I remember walking round the CMH and seeing more empty beds than occupied ones.
 
#13
I cannot believe that!!!!! The bed occupancy was in the region of 80-90%, mainly as it was military to cope with an unforeseen influx of casualties. There may have been some empty beds at times but there were times when they were getting patients from other hospitals (Frimley & RSCH, Guildford) and these pushed them to their limits!

And the bloody A&E unit, many times the cause of no sleep!!
 
#14
all mil hospitals in UK were just Fd Hosps inside a brick building - and as Op Granby proved, we couldnt deploy enough staff as they had to look after the patients.

It was a slow process to get them to the surrounding NHS sites, this severely hampered our speed at 'getting out the hanger doors'


IMHO - the worst thing we as a nation ever did was close the military hospitals
 
#16
dui-lai said:
... but there were times when they were getting patients from other hospitals (Frimley & RSCH, Guildford) and these pushed them to their limits!

And the bloody A&E unit, many times the cause of no sleep!!
Sorry, it must have been a different CMH I'd stumbled into.
 
#17
Phillip-Kotler said:
dui-lai said:
... but there were times when they were getting patients from other hospitals (Frimley & RSCH, Guildford) and these pushed them to their limits!

And the bloody A&E unit, many times the cause of no sleep!!
Sorry, it must have been a different CMH I'd stumbled into.
Depends which side of the fence you were on, to what picture you saw :wink:
 
#18
I can't remember the buggers name, but I do recall the DGAMS of the time being wholly behind the plans and briefing at every available juncture about how good it would be for the AMS. I also recall the the main driver for 'civilianising' the AMS, for a myriad of reasons, was the problem of sustaining doctor training. As usual, the needs of all the CEGs were subserviant to that of the medics. DCS 15 just kind of happened as a result of the combined effects of stealth, poor leadership and vision on the part of our hierarchy and a complete failure to recognise the future impact of the planned cuts. Oh well, water under the bridge now, but I do recall the BMHs being pretty good value in any number of ways.
 

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