David Camerons MoD

#1
So its not a racing certainty but unless something drastic happens it looks like the Conservatives are likely to form the next government, making that assumption what will the the Conservative/Cameron MoD look like?

His speech today is signalling a clear 'face up to the facts - we are skint' approach to public finance.

Selectively quoting from his recent speech

We’ve made it clear that a Conservative government would spend less than Labour.
With a Conservative government, if ministers want to impress the boss, they’ll have to make their budgets smaller, not bigger. On my watch it will be simple: if you do more for less you get promoted if you do less for more, you get sacked.
But this culture of thrift must apply to the civil service too. So we’ll impose a new fiduciary responsibility on senior civil servants – a contractual obligation to save the taxpayer money. And every government department needs a proper finance director.
So today I can announce our ‘People’s Right to Know’ plan – a democratic check on wasteful spending. Every item of government spending over £25,000, nationally and locally, will have to be published online

Will there be a change in committments, a defence review, more resources, less resources an aping of the US in the fight the wars of today and not tommorrow?

Who wants to look into the crystal ball?
 
#2
But this culture of thrift must apply to the civil service too. So we’ll impose a new fiduciary responsibility on senior civil servants – a contractual obligation to save the taxpayer money. And every government department needs a proper finance director.
That bit does kind of worry me. Saving money and delivering genuine value are not quite the same thing, and one is much harder than the other...
 
#3
No idea to be honest but at a guess a repeat of the 1981 Defence Review anyone :) They have said there will be no cuts to overall defence expenditure before 2011, but apparently they have now rescinded all the pledges they made last year 'given the scale of the crisis'.

In all seriousness, immediate defence review; axing of carriers (notwithstanding Liam Fox's - I think sincere - running on this numerous Tories other than he have now been asked point-blank if a Tory government would bring them in and none to my knowledge have said yes). Consequent axing of JSF. Disbanding of certain RAF squadrons. No idea what they would do to the Army given current commitments, but the Tory approach to Afghanistan will be interesting. They have decided on quadrennial defence reviews, so the budget will be up in the air all the time.

Despite the Tories being widely believed to be friends of the military they have cut savagely in the past (especially the RN) and it will be interesting to see what happens when they come into office. Trident will stay though, obviously.
 
#4
usmarox said:
But this culture of thrift must apply to the civil service too. So we’ll impose a new fiduciary responsibility on senior civil servants – a contractual obligation to save the taxpayer money. And every government department needs a proper finance director.
That bit does kind of worry me. Saving money and delivering genuine value are not quite the same thing, and one is much harder than the other...
Who cares?! There are civil servents that need to get promoted! :roll:
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
I'm looking into my crystal ball right now, and I'm seeing anoher Conservative cull of the armed forces, just like before the Falklands war.

I'm seeing massive cuts to all civil service departments, large job layoffs, massively reduced gobment investment in all manner of different things, including foreign donations.

I'm seeing much tighter border controls, a whole bunch more forced repatriations, and a slight reduction in our held esteem and relationship with Brussels.

I'm seeing huge public sector strikes, oil and gas flogged to ayone who'll buy it, increased inward foreign investment, an increase in the value of the pound (eventually).

I'm seeing the country slowly, painfully, very painfully regain its feet, regain its place in the world, regain its efficiency and rebuild its foundations, probably no under the watch of Cameron either.

I'm seeing it getting better long after it's got a lot worse, and just as it does so . . . . .



I'm seeing those Labour cretins voted back in just to smash it all to pieces once again.

Thus spake my water-filled dish I was looking down into.
 
#6
There will be no choice but to cut back public spending - which is currently totally out of control. With huge debts to service, every department is going to have to take some pain. And Defence will be right up there. Expect a new Govt to take a long hard look at the public sector pension bill too. It's just unaffordable the way it is at present, and will more or less bankrupt the country in the next 30 to 40 years. Don't expect any good news. The current Govt will not face up to reality - the next one will have to.
 
#8
Why Biped...it sounds almost as though you're describing the 80s or something...

Only problem this time is that we have nothing left to sell.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
usmarox said:
Why Biped...it sounds almost as though you're describing the 80s or something...

Only problem this time is that we have nothing left to sell.
Well spotted. There will indeed be a small number of critical differences.

We have a great deal less oil, we are competing with Russia's massive gas reserves in the marketplace, and Thatcher ain't in power. The upside is, the unions are mostly tamed, so the uproar that we had from the 50,'s, 60's and 70's through the 80's won't half be as big, but it will be there all the same.

There have been a number of parallels noted and pointed out, both here and in the press. One of my regurgitated quotes (last week) 'the poor man of Europe' was used in the papers today in one of the stories.

The real parallels are quite significant. We are much poorer once again for a period of Labour rule, our institutions are once again infiltrated, broken and devalued for mere political gain . . . oooh the list goes on, but the scale is larger. One only has to look at 'Capita' to get the idea of where our money has been and is disappearing.
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#10
Markintime said:
It is almost inevitable that the MoD will suffer. The coffers have been emptied, how can they not make cuts? Equally how could they leave the MoD alone if they seek to make savings in education or the NHS?
I was at an event recently where a very senior Tory made it clear that the cupboard was pretty much bare. He was hinting at a major defence reviews along the US quadrennial reviews, should they take power next year. He also hinted that some sacred cows would go. I took that as Carriers, FRES and A400 plus some big metal on big metal capability that we all cherish.
 
#11
I watched Camerons speech with growing anxiety. Especially when he said that his government will honour the current pay pledges but public sector workers will get what the government can afford in the future.

I expect a whittling away of nurses, police and armed forces salaries until we are back to the late eighties and early nineties.
 
#12
Whet said:
I watched Camerons speech with growing anxiety. Especially when he said that his government will honour the current pay pledges but public sector workers will get what the government can afford in the future.

I expect a whittling away of nurses, police and armed forces salaries until we are back to the late eighties and early nineties.
And in terms of military power, back to the early 17th century.
 
#13
If we all agree that the MoD is going to have to feel the squeeze like every other department, right or wrong, what in practical terms does that mean to major equipment programmes, committments (Falklands, Afghanistan etc), non headline grabbing stuff like welfare, funded research and others

Personally, I think that the MoD can make a good argument for maintenance of budget or even increases (we are at war for fcuks sake) but when you see the waste in the procurement of kit its hard to defend
 
#14
Whet, if there is no money to spare how can he increase pay for Public Servants. We have serious serious debts to repay thanks to the Spend and Tax policies of Brown and his Greedy Corrupt cronies. The next few years are going to be extremely tough, and I note that all the increases in taxation occur after the next election, with the greatest debt announced to be 1 year before the election that should occur in 2015.

Labour Isnt Working
 
#15
I think you'd probably find that the Tories would not be sending millions to countries like India who clearly don't need aid from us, I'm sure there would be a moratorium on a lot of overseas aid.
Cutting down on bureaucracy at all levels in the civil service, remove all the unnecessary layers of management, the committees and QANGOs that Labour are so fond of.
There may be some looking at public sector pensions, hopefully starting with MPs who can gain a 2/3rds final salary pension without spending a day at Westminster.
One thing is quite clear, whoever comes to power, we, as a country, are in the worst state we've ever been in. We have to bite the bullet for our children's sakes, we certainly wont be alone in our suffering.
 
#17
E-Borders £billions ?
ID Cards £Billions ?
Trident replacement £Billions ?
Welfare State £Billions ?
MP's Expenses £Millions ?

Cut back, or bin, some of these and that should be enough to get the Country on the road to recovery.
 
#18
From a cancellation perspective, the question is more "what can you cancel without attracting major cancellation fees". The answer is probably not as much as you'd like it to be.

Reducing the CS won't make much difference either - most of the CS are admin grades and paid under £20K per year - you'll pay more to lay them off than tokeep them on, and the admin work will still need to be done by someone.

I would like a very honest look at what we can afford to deploy and whether its the right structure - should we stick the the myth that sending a divisional HQ means we're sending a real division, or focus on getting some very good brigades sorted out and then stick them into a US divisional structure?
 
#19
Clearly cuts should be carefully considered as regards MOD as we have commitments to a war in Afghanistan, and who knows a naval problem starting to appear off Somalia. We should carefully consider whether we can afford to build and equip the carriers, but having scrapped our existing naval air capability we may not be able to scrap the carrier programme as a whole.

It is an indictment on the Labour Government that the 2 carriers were suggested 10 years ago and we are only now looking to lay the keels, let alone pay for them.

Given the Defence budget has hardy increased in 12 years despite 2 large scale and long deployments, I cant see much room for cutting anything from it.
 
#20
jim30 said:
From a cancellation perspective, the question is more "what can you cancel without attracting major cancellation fees". The answer is probably not as much as you'd like it to be.

Reducing the CS won't make much difference either - most of the CS are admin grades and paid under £20K per year - you'll pay more to lay them off than tokeep them on, and the admin work will still need to be done by someone.

I would like a very honest look at what we can afford to deploy and whether its the right structure - should we stick the the myth that sending a divisional HQ means we're sending a real division, or focus on getting some very good brigades sorted out and then stick them into a US divisional structure?
When we sent a division to Iraq in 2003, we sent a division HQ. I'd argue that we are now pushing up against the opposite problem to the one you put forward in the Stan - we have 9,000 people out their in five battlegroups with maybe more to come, plus however many under our wing, and we only have a brigade HQ out their full time.
 

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