Dave in Pasty shock

#1
In the G paper Pasty tax: PM seeks to take heat out of hot pie row
David Cameron has presented himself as a man of the people by revealing he likes Cornish pasties, and last ate a large one at Leeds railway station from the West Cornwall Pasty Company – which is seen as being at the Boden end of the pasty market.

The revelation about Cameron's dietary habits came a day after the chancellor, George Osborne, was cross-examined by a Labour MP at the Treasury select committee over when he last ate a pasty.

Osborne revealed he could not recall, leading to tabloid accusations that he was not aware of the impact of the budget plan to impose VAT on hot takeaway pasties.

Greggs, the bakers, has been to the Treasury to protest at the way the tax was being applied to its pies.

The move will add 20% to the cost of hot pies and pasties, prompting fears there will be panic buying before the VAT rise takes effect.

Cameron said the move would protect small businesses and takeaways from competition in supermarkets.

The prime minister said he eats pasties regularly when he goes to west Cornwall and the one he ate at Leeds station had been large, adding: "And very good it was too." Although the prime minister appeared to have mis-remembered the identity of the pasty shop. The brand at Leeds station is the Cornish Bakehouse, not West Cornwall Pasty Company.

The Greggs chief executive, Ken McMeikan, said on BBC Newsnight on Tuesday night that ministers had "lost touch" and did not appreciate the impact the changes to VAT rules would have on ordinary people.

The high street chain saw millions wiped off its shares after the budget closed a loophole that has meant some hot takeaway foods, such as sausage rolls and pasties, escaped the duty.

The move sparked outrage, with critics contrasting it with the cut in the 50p top tax rate.

But speaking at a 10 Downing Street press conference, Cameron said that Osborne was trying to bring shops into line with the VAT charged for more than two decades on takeaway burger bars, fried chicken restaurants and fish and chip shops.

The prime minister said: "It was Nigel Lawson who over 20 years ago put VAT on hot takeaway food, and many pasties and other items of hot takeaway food have had VAT on them since that time.

"What we have seen since then is a number of businesses trying to find ways around that rule, fighting court cases and the rest of it.

"Many, many small businesses in this country, whether selling fried chicken or fish and chips or hot takeaway pies, are already paying VAT.

"What the government has to try to do is make sure the VAT rules are fairly applied.

"I don't think it is fair that the small businessman running a fried chicken takeaway is having to charge his customers VAT but the big supermarket isn't having to pay VAT on fresh hot chicken.

"It's about trying to have a sensible VAT arrangement where the boundaries are sensible."

The move was ridiculed by Labour MP John Mann during Osborne's appearance before the Commons Treasury committee on Tuesday.

"With the weather as it is today, a lukewarm pasty from Greggs is not VAT-able because the ambient temperature outside is the reference point, whereas if it is the middle of winter and freezing cold it is VAT-able," Mann said.

"It is an extraordinarily complex situation when you are having to check with the Meteorological Office on whether or not to add VAT on pasties in Greggs, which is what your consultation paper does."

Osborne was accused by the Sun of behaving like Marie Antoinette telling the public to eat cake.

The Labour leader, Ed Miliband, talking to the press outside a Greggs outlet in Redditch, where he and Ed Balls ate sausage rolls, said: "There is a serious point here which is that the government is hitting people's living standards in every way they can.

"Not just fuel duty going up, child benefit taken away, tax credits being cut, now even putting 20% on the cost of pasties, sausage rolls – and the chancellor's excuse? Well, he says you can buy them cold and you can avoid the tax."

He said he would vote against the rise and is trying to form an alliance with angry Liberal Democrat West Country MPs.
My bold, I think they are all quiche men really.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Loathe as I am to say it, but CMD and Drunkard Osborne have a point. All they are doing (albeit badly) is remove an anomalie wehreby identical types of hot food to take away (by corner shops/garages) are charged VAT at the standard rate (ie 20%)


But it is a convenient stick to beat them with because "ambient temperature" (the measure used in the budget) changes all the time. Thus rendering when VAT should be charged a bit of a muddle.
 
#4
Loathe as I am to say it, but CMD and Drunkard Osborne have a point. All they are doing (albeit badly) is remove an anomalie wehreby identical types of hot food to take away (by corner shops/garages) are charged VAT at the standard rate (ie 20%)


But it is a convenient stick to beat them with because "ambient temperature" (the measure used in the budget) changes all the time. Thus rendering when VAT should be charged a bit of a muddle.

Thats right,when does hot food that is cooling,cease to be hot food.

We have hot,warm,and cold food,when does hot become warm,and hot/warm become cold,theoretically fresh bread/rolls are hot,can see a few legal cases in the pipeline,someone is bound to spot an opportunity. ^~
 
#6
Thats right,when does hot food that is cooling,cease to be hot food.

We have hot,warm,and cold food,when does hot become warm,and hot/warm become cold,theoretically fresh bread/rolls are hot,can see a few legal cases in the pipeline,someone is bound to spot an opportunity. ^~
What's to stop Greggs and other retailers selling the pie cold and then offering to heat it up for nothing.....?
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
What's to stop Greggs and other retailers selling the pie cold and then offering to heat it up for nothing.....?
They are offering a chargeable service upon which they must account for the VAT (at the actual value of the service, not the nominal amount charged). There's a lot of case law going back to the late 80's/early90's on this.
 
#10
Stick a microwave where the public can use it. Once paid for you can smoke it for all they care. If you choose to warm it, that's your business.


Of course it won't be long before some scrote shoves a can of Coke in there and hits fricassee.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Stick a microwave where the public can use it. Once paid for you can smoke it for all they care. If you choose to warm it, that's your business.
Sorry Lardbeast, but see my last. If you supply the means to heat the food, you are making a taxable supply and must account for the VAT at the standard rate.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Loathe as I am to say it, but CMD and Drunkard Osborne have a point. All they are doing (albeit badly) is remove an anomaly whereby identical types of hot food to take away (by corner shops/garages) are charged VAT at the standard rate (ie 20%)
When a politician of whatever political hue 'removes an anomaly', it always involves raising tax to remove the anomaly - for example not zero rating hot food to bring it into line with the VAT on other food.

Strange that...

Wordsmith
 
#14
If Oscar Wilde had eaten a Gregg's pasty, he would have said that..........






A spokeswoman for the Cornwall Pasty Company said it would be vigorously fighting the VAT hike, although she vowed not to pass it on to consumers.

“The problem is that our customers can always downgrade but Greggs customers have nowhere to go," she said.
 
#15
I'd have more respect for the man if he stood outside Greggs and spat on people as they went in.
 
#16
Hillarious that Milliband has rushed to get himself photoed munching on a Gregg's sausage roll.
I would actually find that quite patronising but then I realised - quite a lot of his electorate would suck that up and think: "Hey - he's one of us...he eats pasties etc".
 
#17
Thats right,when does hot food that is cooling,cease to be hot food.

We have hot,warm,and cold food,when does hot become warm,and hot/warm become cold,theoretically fresh bread/rolls are hot,can see a few legal cases in the pipeline,someone is bound to spot an opportunity. ^~
When the RLC/NAAFI* cook it.....


*Delete as appropriate.
 
#19
Hillarious that Milliband has rushed to get himself photoed munching on a Gregg's sausage roll.
I would actually find that quite patronising but then I realised - quite a lot of his electorate would suck that up and think: "Hey - he's one of us...he eats pasties etc".
It sums up politics today, they are too busy trying to look good (and grab as much cash as humanly possible) rather than actually doing their jobs.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
It sums up politics today, they are too busy trying to look good (and grab as much cash as humanly possible) rather than actually doing their jobs.
.
Looking good and grabbing as much cash, sorry my bad, the voters' attention is their job.
 
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