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Dash Cam 'Black Box'

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
I fitted a Blackvue two camera system to my replacement car
seems to work very well
the data from it has already been used to allow the police to seize a car
 

Slime

LE
Google something called Cooperative ITS. ITS stands for Intelligent Transport Systems. The 'Cooperative' bit refers to cars that interact with the road infrastructure, exchanging data on where they are, their intentions, road conditions and so on. Effectively, every vehicle on the road becomes a probe/source of data, not just a recipient.

Years away? Nah. I was at a conference in Detroit last autumn where GM's head said she'd accelerate deployment onto some roads within a couple of years. The same's going on in Europe.

As to camera systems, you might start by looking at CMOS sensors - the types of cameras you see in mobile phones. A CMOS-based camera the size of a 2 Euro coin could be stuck in a traffic signal post and provide a usable street-monitoring capability. That can easily be integrated into a vehicle and the quality of images your current smart phones can generate demonstrates a base level of image quality that we can expect. The cost point on the vision technology is coming down all the time. The car manufacturers are chasing a cost point in the single hundreds of dollars but it will continue to come down. Moore's Law and all that.

Cost is an issue, certainly. Look at things like the Terramax - the autonomous logistics vehicle that the US Army has been developing - pricey, but iterative generations and volume production will bring that down. That's the absolute top-end - a vehicle that can navigate off-road, rather than just following the road.

But cars such as Mercedes's S-Class already have machine vision technology on board which will allow the car to follow, unaided, the lines in the road, the cars in front and so on. The machine vision technology can pick out of the vista in front of the vehicle such things as road signs, interpret them and act/react accordingly. So the technology's already here for hands-off driving and at a price point that can go into top-level cars. Expect the E-Class to have it in the not-too-distant, and equivalent trickle-down in other manufacturers' ranges soon.

The sticking points are legislative - the Vienna Convention stipulated for a long time that there be a human in the loop. That's been changed recently, albeit on the quiet, but in reality cars such as the S-Class can already effectively drive themselves.

Google might be grabbing the headlines because it's a consumer brand but the mainstream motor manufacturers have been plugging away, individually and collectively through government-funded ITS projects, for years.

So, expect it be around a lot sooner than some of you expect.

As you say interconnectivety already exists..........as does the ability to alter what communications are made, what individual cars think they are/should be doing and various ways to give them wrong info or steal them.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
As you say interconnectivety already exists..........as does the ability to alter what communications are made, what individual cars think they are/should be doing and various ways to give them wrong info or steal them.

With respect, a lot of effort has gone into making things robust. Too much is at stake if things are compromised. Ignore the scare-mongering.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Google something called Cooperative ITS. ITS stands for Intelligent Transport Systems
Arrse needs a branch of this. COoperative Intelligent Transport Usage System.

Or COITUS.
 
With respect, a lot of effort has gone into making things robust. Too much is at stake if things are compromised. Ignore the scare-mongering.
Ignore the scare mongering?

OK.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Ignore the scare mongering?

OK.

I've been involved in this area for 15 years. A lot of the reason why this stuff has taken and is taking so long to come to market is the (absolutely correct) attitude of 'test, test, test and test again'.

There is some phenomenally badly informed writing even in the mainstream media. Some 'informed' writers think that any vehicle with an OBD2 port is instantly vulnerable. That's errant nonsense.

Yes, it's right to be concerned. No, we shouldn't be complacent. Yes, there will be attempts at hacking. No, it hasn't happened under anything other than controlled conditions. Yes, the developers have seen and learned and countered. No, breaking in will not be a pushover - far from it.
 
If it's electrical, it'll go tits up.
Trust me.
 

Slime

LE
With respect, a lot of effort has gone into making things robust. Too much is at stake if things are compromised. Ignore the scare-mongering.

I haven't heard any scare mongering. Im going from people who actually know and have shown how to mess with things.
You might actually find VERY LITTLE has gone into making these systems safe which is why modern and especially modern high end cars are being stolen in increasing numbers again for the first time in decades.
I talked with someone recently and in one hour he designed a new type of car key to coubter the latest type of 'key in the house' car theft. Its super obvious but not one car manufacterer has any security in their keys to counter the new theft style.

If I'm honest I'm a bit bored of hearing about security and robustness of systems, this is made worse by hearing the public announcements of hacked or damaged systems and more so by the systems that are hacked but are kept quiet/not made public.

In the modern age where a householder can have their identity stolen because they have fitted smart light bulbs or a smart fridge etc do you really think that modern cars with built in wifi are safe from interferance?

At the ultra low tech end what will happen when some chav with a knife/hammer/gun jumps out in front of a high end car with a collision/pedestrian recognition system...............oh yes, it will stop, and stop very rapidly if the chav leaves it until the very last minute.
Close protection or diplomat cars have had airbags etc disabled for many years to avoid being trapped in situations like the above. While they will dusable the anti collision systems too the ordinary man on the street will keep them.
Just have a think what fun you could have with altering road warning signs and how some modern systems will aid both low and high tech attack. ;)
 

Slime

LE
I've been involved in this area for 15 years. A lot of the reason why this stuff has taken and is taking so long to come to market is the (absolutely correct) attitude of 'test, test, test and test again'.

There is some phenomenally badly informed writing even in the mainstream media. Some 'informed' writers think that any vehicle with an OBD2 port is instantly vulnerable. That's errant nonsense.

Yes, it's right to be concerned. No, we shouldn't be complacent. Yes, there will be attempts at hacking. No, it hasn't happened under anything other than controlled conditions. Yes, the developers have seen and learned and countered. No, breaking in will not be a pushover - far from it.


Sorry, I didnt see this post before my above reply.

Breaking in won't be a pushover...........yes ok, OK, sweet dreams ;)
That's why its on the increase!
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Sorry, I didnt see this post before my above reply.

Breaking in won't be a pushover...........yes ok, OK, sweet dreams ;)
That's why its on the increase!

We're at crossed purposes here. I'm talking about hacking and taking control of an autonomous vehicle on the move, not theft.
 

Slime

LE
We're at crossed purposes here. I'm talking about hacking and taking control of an autonomous vehicle on the move, not theft.

You did mention breaking in with you OBD2 ref, but no, we arent at cross purposes here. On the move is possible too, whether high tech or low tech.
If you work in the industry you should know how as well!

Lots of things are sold as safe, and the public normally believe it, its just a shame that crooks decide to use equal amounts of skill to defeat the safe systems.
Lets go back to the OBD2 issue for a second. How many ARRSErs here do you think have a car with an immobiliser and a category one alarm system and so think a thief would need a programmed key to start and drive away their car?
You will know a thief wouldnt need a proper key to steal that car and that a screwdriver and £4 clone chip will do the job nicely.

Going back to moving vehicles that RECEIVE INFO from surrounding vehicles or traffic systems I can see room for meddling there :)
Crooks will adapt to the new systems like they do with every other technology. Who would have thought a decade ago that you could have your ID stolen by a crook using your fridge or kettle ect to gain access to your details.
Crash for cash may become stop for car theft at the low tech end. There are already ways to disable or confuse moving cars via wifi.

Its rather sad/amusing to realise that governments with assets like the CIA, MOD, NASA ICBMs, health services, national banks etc can be hacked or interupted by serious hackers yet the public believe they can buy a £18.000 car and it will be safe ;)

On the other hand, there are and will be low tech solutions to defeat crooks.
If I hade a new roller or top end Merc (not likely lol) I'd be keeping the keys in a miniature faraday cage while in the house as thats the only current way to keep them safe.
Gone are the days where a thief has to actually enter your house and steal those keys to start and steal your car. They are just as usuable from within the house.
 

Slime

LE
@Cold_Collation

I see an upside to cars being more high tech as well.
Im looking forward to the day when police can 'fry' a stolen car they are chasing and bring the car to a halt. Im sure some will say a speeding car with a lack of power to the brakes and steering goes against someone's human rights etc, but I could overlook that hahahahahahaha
 

Slime

LE
You did mention breaking in with you OBD2 ref, but no, we arent at cross purposes here. On the move is possible too, whether high tech or low tech.
If you work in the industry you should know how as well!

Lots of things are sold as safe, and the public normally believe it, its just a shame that crooks decide to use equal amounts of skill to defeat the safe systems.
Lets go back to the OBD2 issue for a second. How many ARRSErs here do you think have a car with an immobiliser and a category one alarm system and so think a thief would need a programmed key to start and drive away their car?
You will know a thief wouldnt need a proper key to steal that car and that a screwdriver and £4 clone chip will do the job nicely.

Going back to moving vehicles that RECEIVE INFO from surrounding vehicles or traffic systems I can see room for meddling there :)
Crooks will adapt to the new systems like they do with every other technology. Who would have thought a decade ago that you could have your ID stolen by a crook using your fridge or kettle ect to gain access to your details.
Crash for cash may become stop for car theft at the low tech end. There are already ways to disable or confuse moving cars via wifi.

Its rather sad/amusing to realise that governments with assets like the CIA, MOD, NASA ICBMs, health services, national banks etc can be hacked or interupted by serious hackers yet the public believe they can buy a £18.000 car and it will be safe ;)

On the other hand, there are and will be low tech solutions to defeat crooks.
If I hade a new roller or top end Merc (not likely lol) I'd be keeping the keys in a miniature faraday cage while in the house as thats the only current way to keep them safe.
Gone are the days where a thief has to actually enter your house and steal those keys to start and steal your car. They are just as usuable from within the house.

Quick edit: for interferring with cars in the move, I will add that issues can/will come when the car is running, with a driver in but stationary at traffic lights etc. Technically driving, even if not moving but perhaps having the doors unlocked when the driver wants them locked to kerp out car jackers.
While thats not too common in the UK it is elsewhere and possibly why many new cars have prominant and easy to reach buttons to lock the doors (reachable by the driver and front passenger)
 

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