Darling unveils borrowing gamble

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7745340.stm

Chancellor Alistair Darling has cut VAT but taken borrowing to record levels in moves he says are needed to save the UK from a deep and long-lasting recession.

Top earners also face more tax and all National Insurance contributions will rise, he said in his pre-Budget report.
Key points

VAT cut by 2.5 percentage points
45% tax rate on earnings over £150,000 from 2011
All National Insurance to go up by 0.5% from 2011
Economy to shrink by up to 1.25% next year
Borrowing to hit record £118bn
Phased increase in vehicle excise duty
Just in time. Excellent.
 
#3
Oh, Yaaaawn! Wake me up before you go-go!. 'Munter' Broone & Darlings 'Great Giveaway'.... all Smoke and Mirrors..... Gubbermunts bilge!!

A complete wast of time frankly. VAT reduced from 17.5% to 15% for just 12 months. This won't even be noticed with all the reductions and bargains that retailers are making. As for any Tax giveaways for the lower paid. Well I suppose a few more quid of Personal Tax Allowance will be welcome, but all this will be eaten up by Council Tax increases.

So everything being equal - I don't really think Darling-Brown's prebudget policy is going to do that much. What next - the 'Queens Speech' at the State Opening of Parliament. Will there be the 'Sting in the Tail' of Labour policy. Maybe more 'proto-stalinist control freakery'.

Yaaaawn!! I think i'll go out and drown my sorrows with 8 or 9 tinnies of 'Speschul Bru'. 8O :eek:
 
#4
The title of this threat is Petrol duty to go up...

So it would be illogical to discuss 45% tax rate on earnings over £150,000 from 2011 on the thread.

Of course mr.Darling is a former(?) Trotskist. But this move is rather electoral than economical. As a result the Tories are exposing themselves as defenders of the rich and super-rich.

As for borrowing scheme then I would like to note that mr.Brown is the most competent person in economics among World leaders.

I see the idea. Current severe economical and financial crisis requires extraordinary measures. Big money are needed to calm the situation. Governments of the most developed countries are spending billions to fight with the crisis. Inevitably it will cause big inflation later or sooner. The inflation alas is unavoidable. So if it is unavoidable then it would be logical to borrow because debts would be paid by more 'light' money.

VAT cut by 2.5 percentage points is vital for small business (and valuable for real sector, for manufacturers as well). During crisis times turnover goes low, ratio profit/turnover as well goes low well to 5% or even 1-2%. In this situation 2.5% VAT cut is vital for small business to survive. For manufacturers these 2.5% could in some cases double their profits.

As for the rich then it would not be a big tragedy if they postpone some 'urgent' spendings for new yachts and luxury cars.
 
#6
As for the rich then it would not be a big tragedy if they postpone some 'urgent' spendings for new yachts and luxury cars.
Well you're more likely to find they will bugger off to somwhere where their money is not stolen to pay for layabouts and the like, and will take their money with them. Its the 1970's all over again where the country hemourages the movers a shakers who generate wealth to tax havens with all that entails. 45% of nothing is still nothing.
 
#7
What a load of boloney KGB. I sell supplies to pubs, one of my biggest selling products is Mini Jumbo which I sell at £11.59 plus VAT at 17.5%. Reduce the VAT to 15% and my customer saves 29p! I'm not expecting long queues come 1st December and neither is anyone else.
As for your New Labour propaganda that the Tories are defending the rich, again utter cr4p. They, along with everyone else who isn't Zanu NL are saying that you don't cure this problem by creating massive amounts of debts because come a year or two down the line when the economy hasn't restarted itself we shall all be paying 25-30% basic rate tax just to try to stop Sterling going into freefall.
Broon and his darling Darling keep banging on about it being a global problem but forget that, because of their huge financial mismanagement in the past, the recession in the UK will be far worse than in any other developed economy, four times worse than the Italian and ten times worse than the German!
Darling spouting about making the decision to step in and do something is again utter cr4p; he had no alternative than to step in otherwise people would see just who the real culprits in all this really are. He reduces VAT but makes a compensatory adjustment on fuel duty. Everything, and I do mean everything, which is sold in the UK has to be delivered and that costs fuel, the cost of supply and resupply will not go down which wont help businesses and high street sales.
Supplying my customers in Lancashire used to cost around £30 a day in fuel three years ago, it now costs around £60 and knocking 2.5% off VAT is going to do nothing to help that and, for small businesses who are VAT registered will make it worse as we can only reclaim 15% of what we spend on fuel but the fuel duty will have gone up and that will stay with us for life unlike 15% for a year.
NL have totally fcuked over this country since day one. They have fcuked over the Armed Forces big style, Bliar got his big statesman kicking arrse, US lecture circuit sewn up. Now we have a Government who aren't even willing to give our soldiers the kit they need to keep alive but can afford a huge fleet of BMWs to drive the party apparatchiks round in. NL have been morally bankrupt since day one, they are well on the way to turning this country financially bankrupt. The only thing they are bothered about? Can we ‘spin’ ourselves out of the blame and can we find enough morons like KGB_Resident to ‘spin’ things on a local level?
 
#8
Ord_Sgt said:
As for the rich then it would not be a big tragedy if they postpone some 'urgent' spendings for new yachts and luxury cars.
Well you're more likely to find they will bugger off to somwhere where their money is not stolen to pay for layabouts and the like, and will take their money with them. Its the 1970's all over again where the country hemourages the movers a shakers who generate wealth to tax havens with all that entails. 45% of nothing is still nothing.
Except in the 70's we didn't have the Channel Tunnel and the internet which now makes it even easier for the movers and shakers to take their money abroad, sit in their luxury house in France and conduct business from there.
 
#9
Pompeii said:
KGB_resident said:
As for borrowing scheme then I would like to note that mr.Brown is the most competent person in economics among World leaders.
Bollocks.
Not just any bollocks, but huge, massive ones the size of which are rarely seen.
 
#10
He makes it all sound good so the morons and the layabouts vote to keep Mew Liarbour in power.
If you don't pay your dues to any organisation you don't get to vote in the election of the officers . Apply this to a general election and only tax payers allowed to vote , Pensioners who have paid tax during their working lives keep the right to vote , all others not allowed a vote.
 
#11
KGB_resident said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7745340.stm

Chancellor Alistair Darling has cut VAT but taken borrowing to record levels in moves he says are needed to save the UK from a deep and long-lasting recession.

Top earners also face more tax and all National Insurance contributions will rise, he said in his pre-Budget report.
Key points

VAT cut by 2.5 percentage points
45% tax rate on earnings over £150,000 from 2011
All National Insurance to go up by 0.5% from 2011
Economy to shrink by up to 1.25% next year
Borrowing to hit record £118bn
Phased increase in vehicle excise duty
Just in time. Excellent.[/quote]

Just in time for what? Excellent? I don't think so. A 2.5% cut in VAT for 13 months together with an increase in fuel duties plus other increases. I somehow don't think that this will achieve anything positive.

Or were you having a giraffe Sergei?
 
#12
rockpile said:
Pompeii said:
KGB_resident said:
As for borrowing scheme then I would like to note that mr.Brown is the most competent person in economics among World leaders.
Bollocks.
Not just any balls, but huge, massive ones the size of which are rarely seen.
Indeed. These aren't just any Bollocks. These are Marks and Spencer Bollocks.

Don't swallow Labour propaganda Sergey. Brown has been spending more than his income for years. He's like the guy who buys a new car while he can't pay the electricity bill. He was virtually laughed out of the G20 meeting.

How is Russia? Awash with perto dollars? Any jobs available for ageing sailors without ice breaker or GPS experience who need to eke out a pension?
 
#13
Some of you need to re-assess your definition of rich. They are not all fat cat entrepreneurs and merchant bankers, many are employed by the state. Those on £150,000 plus salaries include 387 people in local government and my GP.

Thousands in the NHS will be hit by the rise. The average GP salary is now £134,000.
 
#14
sandy_boots said:
Some of you need to re-assess your definition of rich. They are not all fat cat entrepreneurs and merchant bankers, many are employed by the state. Those on £150,000 plus salaries include 387 people in local government and my GP.

Thousands in the NHS will be hit by the rise. The average GP salary is now £134,000.
and who wants an average GP?
 
#15
sandy_boots said:
Some of you need to re-assess your definition of rich. They are not all fat cat entrepreneurs and merchant bankers, many are employed by the state. Those on £150,000 plus salaries include 387 people in local government and my GP.

Thousands in the NHS will be hit by the rise. The average GP salary is now £134,000.
Well, my heart pumps purple p1ss for them, it really does.
 
#16
Markintime said:
What a load of boloney KGB. I sell supplies to pubs, one of my biggest selling products is Mini Jumbo which I sell at £11.59 plus VAT at 17.5%. Reduce the VAT to 15% and my customer saves 29p!
Let's look at it from another angle. Do you yourself manufacture these "Mini Jumbo's"? Likely you buy them in big numbers and sell to the customers. I suggest that each item brings you as a profit something like 1 Pound. So 29% additional profit would be much appreciated.

As for Pubs then does one expect that priced would go low after VAT is lowered. Unlikely. So small business would gain and at least not lose.

Markintime said:
As for your New Labour propaganda that the Tories are defending the rich, again utter cr4p.
It is simply the truth. Yes, the Conservative party represents interest of the rich. And it is not something new. Maybe you would claim that the Tories first of all care about ordiraty citizens?

Markintime said:
They, along with everyone else who isn't Zanu NL are saying that you don't cure this problem by creating massive amounts of debts because come a year or two down the line when the economy hasn't restarted itself we shall all be paying 25-30% basic rate tax just to try to stop Sterling going into freefall.
I have explained the idea of the borrowing scheme and have nothing to add. You don't present any counter-arguments. So it is impossible to continue fruitfull discussion.

Markintime said:
Broon and his darling Darling keep banging on about it being a global problem but forget that, because of their huge financial mismanagement in the past, the recession in the UK will be far worse than in any other developed economy, four times worse than the Italian and ten times worse than the German!
Darling spouting about making the decision to step in and do something is again utter cr4p; he had no alternative than to step in otherwise people would see just who the real culprits in all this really are. He reduces VAT but makes a compensatory adjustment on fuel duty.
Why not? The cost of fuel will remain unchanged for consumers.

Markintime said:
...Now we have a Government who aren't even willing to give our soldiers the kit they need to keep alive but can afford a huge fleet of BMWs to drive the party apparatchiks round in.
BMW? How unpatriotic. Bently or Aston-Martin would be better choice.

Markintime said:
NL have been morally bankrupt since day one, they are well on the way to turning this country financially bankrupt. The only thing they are bothered about? Can we ‘spin’ ourselves out of the blame and can we find enough morons like KGB_Resident to ‘spin’ things on a local level?
And what is the alternative to highly esteemed mr.Brown? Maybe milk-sucker Davie boy? Definetely he with his gang would ruin British economy in few days.
 
#17
I fell of mi chair laughing yesterday listening at all that crap what Darling was spouting, New left wing Labour are giving you exactly ukcf all because what you are getting is what you have already paid in with the thirty odd new taxes that we now have and the sky high petrol prices that we have always been shafted with since this lot took command, roll on the revolution
 
#18
Well the stock markets seemed to like it. As they would, it adds 2.5% to the profits of companies. The government has asked retailers to pass the cut on, but can you honestly see shops re-labeling prices from £30 to £29.25? Perhaps the government doesn't know that simply repricing everything induces its own costs.

Does anyone know what the opposition are planning to do? George Osbourne has ripped into government over this but i've not heard much about what they'd do differently.
 
#19
Ancient_Mariner said:
rockpile said:
Pompeii said:
KGB_resident said:
As for borrowing scheme then I would like to note that mr.Brown is the most competent person in economics among World leaders.
Bollocks.
Not just any balls, but huge, massive ones the size of which are rarely seen.
Indeed. These aren't just any Bollocks. These are Marks and Spencer Bollocks.

Don't swallow Labour propaganda Sergey. Brown has been spending more than his income for years. He's like the guy who buys a new car while he can't pay the electricity bill. He was virtually laughed out of the G20 meeting.

How is Russia? Awash with perto dollars? Any jobs available for ageing sailors without ice breaker or GPS experience who need to eke out a pension?
Russia is an unique country with absolutely flat tax rate on earnings. It is equal 13% for the poor and super rich like mr.Abramovitch.

Interesting that Russian ruling elite defends flat tax rate on earnings by the same arguments as the Tories. That the rich would seek tax havens and so on. As for me then it would be only for good - less thieves.

As for G20 meeting then it look that a common plan is unrealistic. So mr.Brown decides to act the way he thinks is the best.
 
#20
Badger,
I think you will find what Darling and Gordy did yesterday coincidence with what was happening on the US stock market and made them working class heroes for the non working class.
 

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