Dannatt hits out at weapons failures

#1
Daily Mail
Army chief hits out at weapons failures
By SIMON WALTERS
31st March 2007

British Army officers struggling to hold the line in Iraq have lost faith in their weapons, vehicles and radios as a result of the poor quality and quantity of equipment provided by the Ministry of Defence.

A damning report sent to Defence Secretary Des Browne by the head of the Army, General Sir Richard Dannatt, lists a catalogue of complaints by officers and front-line troops. He says:

- There are not enough properly trained medics to treat injured troops.

- The radio communication system keeps going wrong and equipment has to be sent back to the UK to be repaired.

- Private security firms in Iraq have better equipment.

- Front-line troops are at risk because they are sent into action with weapons they have never used before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...article_id=445916&in_page_id=1770&ito=newsnow
 
#2
Well said Sir.
Good to see a Servincing Senior doing his duty by the troops he commands.
john
Somehow I can't see Gorden coughing up any of the 50 million for silly projects like The Troops, got more serious things on his mind like Africa.
 
#3
Or outreach programmes on the benefits of drinking milk.

The "pint a day" co-ordinators.
 
#4
OK. Much bashing of Jackson for his supposed silence on these matters. Now we have someone who has spoken out.
Let's just see what effect this has.
Let's just see if the guy resigns if he is snubbed. Then we will have lost a damned good boss for no result.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
 
#5
I'm not sure, but it isn't clear that these are his views (although he might agree with them) - they are the views of units interviewed by his briefing team when they do the rounds; this newspaper has just twisted it's source slightly.

The CGS Briefing Team Report is always put before Parliament?

dpm
 
#6
What a damning condemnation of a government in power for almost ten years? How could such a government embark on two major military operations, one of them arguably illegal, with an army reeling from successive cuts and equipped with the 'cheapest tools'?

Whatever may be the outcome of General Dannatt's 'note' to Browne, he should not resign as he will only be replaced by a 'Jackson/Walker' style 'yesman' - remember who appoints CGS.

I agree with Jonwilly, Brown will not produce any more funding, except for 'eye-catching' gesture amounts, accompanied naturally with hidden reductions elsewhere for the Forces in compensation.

Brown will naturally trumpet his spending of millions, even billions, of OUR tax money to the wholly corrupt regimes in Africa. Why? I don't want my tax money sent to Africa, when I see elderly people in this country barely able to survive; when I see an appalling NHS; when I see the poorest of young people starved not only of a decent chance of education and proper food but hope!

The worst country in the developed world for child poverty. (Legacy item).

Get a grip Brown you blinkered fool and don't follow the idiotic clown Blair with his propensity for globe-trotting and posing whilst there are SERIOUS PROBLEMS TO BE ADDRESSED AT HOME - many of which caused by your hopeless handling of public finances.

BRING ON THE GENERAL ELECTION
 
#7
lsquared said:
What a damning condemnation of a government in power for almost ten years? How could such a government embark on two major military operations, one of them arguably illegal, with an army reeling from successive cuts and equipped with the 'cheapest tools'?

Whatever may be the outcome of General Dannatt's 'note' to Browne, he should not resign as he will only be replaced by a 'Jackson/Walker' style 'yesman' - remember who appoints CGS.
Just before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, it is entirely routine for the findings of the CGS Briefing Team (in the form of a summary of issues raised by soliders during their tour of units) to be briefed to ECAB and the Sec State. Indeed, it was set up in '99 to improve communications between those at the top of the Army (including the Sec State) and the soldiers in it.

This article is blatant sensationalism and will do us no favours. Anyone serving that is interested in the team, and or who wants a copy of the points that they brief to CGS and onwards (ie. the report), can access their site through ArmyNET.

dpm
 
#8
lsquared said:
What a damning condemnation of a government in power for almost ten years? .....The worst country in the developed world for child poverty. (Legacy item). .....

BRING ON THE GENERAL ELECTION
And, according to yesterday's Telegraph, you have ...

1. The highest rail fares in Europe.
2. One of the worst pension systems in the world.

etc etc.

Defence spending is never a vote winner. Just hope that in 2 years' time, Boy Dave and his team prove better at it than the current rabble of imcompetents.
 
#9
This article is blatant sensationalism and will do us no favours. Anyone serving that is interested in the team, and or who wants a copy of the points that they brief to CGS and onwards (ie. the report), can access their site through ArmyNET.

dpm[/quote]

DPM. Thank you for your informative and calming first paragraph.

I fear I am forced to disagree with your term '...sensationalism..'. No-one remotely connected and concerned with our Armed Forces can be happy and satisfied with the treatment handed out to them by this disastrous and dangerous government.

'The form', and the 'way things are done' must become subservient to the requirements, well-being and welfare of the servicemen and women who are the PRIME RESPONSIBILTY of those men comprising ECAB.

I spent long enough poncing around in SW1 to know that the higher one goes the easier it is to forget the only reason we have red tabs and 'gongs' galore - the PRIVATE SOLDIER. My goodness I can recall some scalding scenes when I was bold, and old enough, to remind some gentlemen of this FACT.

There are no circumstances, nor situations, that I can conceive of, that would moderate my total disgust and utter condemnation with and of every aspect of Blair's dreadful government.
 
#10
No-one understands service life anymore because we are too remote from the majorities boring self centred lives and unfortunately it don't matter which colour your politics are no-one outside serving and ex-serving circles are remotely interested about a load of whinging squaddies,
who cares if your gear is shit Mr Tony spent (sorry)wasted millions on that junk(oops)equipment 'so just fcukn die quietly it's what he pays you for', now shut up corries startin!!
 
#11
I agree with him on the OPTAG front, when i went on Op Grapple 7, our OPTAG was awesome. Mine demo's, live firing demos with Warrior support, live contact demos on convoys. The whole shabang. When i went on Telic, it just seemed that the instructors were on a weeks booze and fag run to Germany. They stood up in the cinema rattling off power point, and the few demo's we got, were sh1t as well. The demo troops being uninterested Rear party wallahs. The instructors had no interest in what they were doing at all
 
#14
And that, Face, is where I disagree with tenders. We should ask for interested parties to supply a prototype which demonstrates the qualities that we have asked for. It should be tested to distraction AND FOUND TO WORK WELL in every theatre which we think we will be soldiering in and then when a prototype is chosen and a production line is set up there should be penalties for slippage in delivery dates and for if the equipment does not work to the initial instructions laid down
 
#15
lsquared said:
Whatever may be the outcome of General Dannatt's 'note' to Browne, he should not resign as he will only be replaced by a 'Jackson/Walker' style 'yesman' - remember who appoints CGS.BRING ON THE GENERAL ELECTION
Exactly - my thoughts entirely - Nice to see Walker has gained some pompous title or other after retirement. Rewarded by towing the govt line through his tenure. Thanks Sir
 
#16
Sven said:
And that, Face, is where I disagree with tenders. We should ask for interested parties to supply a prototype which demonstrates the qualities that we have asked for. It should be tested to distraction AND FOUND TO WORK WELL in every theatre which we think we will be soldiering in and then when a prototype is chosen and a production line is set up there should be penalties for slippage in delivery dates and for if the equipment does not work to the initial instructions laid down
Good god! Sven talking sense... :D

Although, I am curious to know how you test something to distraction.

:?
 
#17
lsquared said:
DPM. Thank you for your informative and calming first paragraph.

I fear I am forced to disagree with your term '...sensationalism..'. No-one remotely connected and concerned with our Armed Forces can be happy and satisfied with the treatment handed out to them by this disastrous and dangerous government.

'The form', and the 'way things are done' must become subservient to the requirements, well-being and welfare of the servicemen and women who are the PRIME RESPONSIBILTY of those men comprising ECAB.

I spent long enough poncing around in SW1 to know that the higher one goes the easier it is to forget the only reason we have red tabs and 'gongs' galore - the PRIVATE SOLDIER. My goodness I can recall some scalding scenes when I was bold, and old enough, to remind some gentlemen of this FACT.
You miss my point - I have no doubt that the points raised by the CGS Briefing Team are extant, but I believe this article to be sensationalist because of the implication that Dannat has sent Browne some sort of extraordinary note, and that he is showing a greater interest than others that have held his appointment.

OldRedCap said:
OK. Much bashing of Jackson for his supposed silence on these matters. Now we have someone who has spoken out.Let's just see what effect this has.
Let's just see if the guy resigns if he is snubbed. Then we will have lost a damned good boss for no result.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
CGS Briefing Team was set up in 1999, and their reports routinely summarised for the Sec State through ECAB since. Dannat has done nothing that Wheeler, Walker or Jackson didn't, hence my sensationalist point.

lsquared said:
Whatever may be the outcome of General Dannatt's 'note' to Browne, he should not resign as he will only be replaced by a 'Jackson/Walker' style 'yesman' - remember who appoints CGS.
Why should he resign? All he has done is submit a formal and routine R2, summarising the points collected by his Briefing Team from soldiers at unit level.

If the article, or your rant, isn't sensationalism, what is?

As an aside, please don't feel that you need remind us that the lads come first. Most of us serving have spent the majority of the last decade dug in with them. What sensationalism does do, however, is result in knee jerk procurement which, in many ways, is as bad as slow procurement. Was Mastiff really what we needed, or was its procurement politically expedient after a media surge? What threats does it actually protect against? What were the alternatives? Were we forced in to buying it because it was the right piece of kit, or because of a knee jerk promise to provide 'before Christmas'?

My experience is fairly limited, although I have spent around 7 of the last 9 nine years on ops or operational training, more recently in AF, NI, Africa and Bosnia, and can safely say that, even in this short period, the kit and equipment that we have received is actually pretty good. There's not enough of it, certainly, but to start crowing about it in the way that Walters does in his article (all of which is old news anyway) just panders, in my opinon, to armchair warriors. That radios, or any piece of equipment, will fail when used robustly, is hardly ground breaking. Kit breaks. We should expect it to, which is why we plan for kit failure.

Please bear in mind that I am not rubbishing the issues raised; I found it incredulous that on my last deployment to AF we had fired no USGL until in theatre, and have experienced many of the other points first hand. That said, I am entirely confident that as much as can be done is being done to reconcile most of these issues. Where this is not being done, more effort is required, but referring to the Subject Topic, Dannat has not 'hit out' at weapons failures. Soldiers have, and this has been reported through the CGS' (appointment, not person) Briefing Team.

Just my view.

dpm
 
#18
In response to voyager, what is the point of having an enormous spending on defence if what you buy is not what you need, the criteria at the MOD seems to be cost driven, or in terms that a peon like me can understand, for the cost of one Rolls Royce that we would really like, we could buy 30 Skoda's which we don't want at any cost,what we realistically should be buying is at least BMW's. Big bangs cost big bucks!!
 
#19
'so just fcukn die quietly it's what he pays you for'

Worked for many a generation of Trooper, but somehow I do think even Blurs New Model Army deserve better.
john
 
#20
In response to voyager, what is the point of having an enormous spending on defence if what you buy is not what you need
Yes that's what I said but repetition makes the case.

If you read my earlier comment it was that from the Treasury standpoint the Army has spent £15 billion+ on equipment for FRES that its commanders decided to buy............that is why the Army High Command cannot go back for more operating budget since it has locked up Army budgets for the coming decade on FRES
 

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