Dangers of a high protein diet

#1
Hey guys, just wanting to ask a quick question regarding the dangers of consuming higher levels of protein to support weight training.

Its a fact that various studies have shown people carrying out resistance training with free weights require higher levels of protein in their diets than other athletes. So far i have read 1.4g/kg in mens fitness, 1g per lb on bb.com and 3.4g per lb on ironaddicts.com!!!

Wesley silvera (the founder of Iron Addicts) insists lack of progress is essentially due to inadequate protein intake. He put a friend of mine (when he was recieveing his training services) on 3g/lb and my friend did see real progess, with all oh his "big 3" going up and he gained weight.

Basically i know "experts" insist on saying that increased protein puts stress and damage on the kidneys, that additional protein is unnecessary, and that apparently it causes your blood to become more acidic thus forcing your body to take calcium from bones to even out the inbalance.

I just returned from the doctor after feeling a weird sensation in my left kidney a few times, worrying my high protein diet could of caused it i had it checked out. No problems, my kidneys are fine.

What are your thought on such theories? Will eating 1g/lb of BW cause health problems in the long term? Is that and adequate level of intake for an Ectomorph?
 
#2
Not for an ectomorph, they have to overload there body's with protein and fats to put on bulk. As for the dangers of a high protein diet, usually it is to do with the high amounts of collestoral (which is not really as problem if you eat lean meats).

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is this. Do you want to become fit and strong? or remain skinny for the sake of a yet unproven and still theoretical danger that some 'experts' postulate.
 
#3
BlackRoseImmortal said:
Not for an ectomorph, they have to overload there body's with protein and fats to put on bulk. As for the dangers of a high protein diet, usually it is to do with the high amounts of collestoral (which is not really as problem if you eat lean meats).

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is this. Do you want to become fit and strong? or remain skinny for the sake of a yet unproven and still theoretical danger that some 'experts' postulate.

True. I want to be bigger and stronger but i dont want to wake up in 30 years time on a dialisis machine! :) Its just confusing who to listen to....
 
#4
gunnerfalkey said:
BlackRoseImmortal said:
Not for an ectomorph, they have to overload there body's with protein and fats to put on bulk. As for the dangers of a high protein diet, usually it is to do with the high amounts of collestoral (which is not really as problem if you eat lean meats).

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is this. Do you want to become fit and strong? or remain skinny for the sake of a yet unproven and still theoretical danger that some 'experts' postulate.

True. I want to be bigger and stronger but i dont want to wake up in 30 years time on a dialisis machine! :) Its just confusing who to listen to....
Or wake up in 30 years and think, coulda, shoulda and why didn't I ..
 
#5
Protein is typically the most expensive of the 3 macro nutrients, and providing your water intake is sufficient a *high* protein diet will not have any adverse effects on your kidneys (providing you do not have a pre-existing kidney condition).

Some of the numbers being thrown around are simply absurd. Unless you're using aids such as steroids, you actually don't need to increase your protein intake considerably in order to support muscle tissue gains as the body will only utilise the protein you currently ingest more efficiently (a higher % not broken down and excreted as waste or stored as fat, but instead used to repair damaged muscle and support growth).

*Alot* of people will incorrectly attribute their gains to increased protein intake instead of actually factoring in improved diet, rest / sleep and resistance training. It's like saying eating dietary fats makes you fat, when it was really the surplus 1000 calories / day (that just so happened to be in the form of fats) that was making you overweight.

Just ensure that you are eating more calories than you expend (typically 10-15% more) in order to support growth. You need quality dietary fats (and arguably carbohydrates as well) in order to support muscle growth, not just protein.
 
#6
I just read the "protein bible" on IA's


Was an eye opener.


Im not worried now. Time to push the diet through the roof. I want results.


Time for a whey shake and some oats me thinks. :)
 
#7
Simple question, how much protein does a body need daily?
Then are you doing anything to warrant increased levels of protein?
Most exercise burns carbo-hydrates which is what you need far more of, protein does not supply fuel for exercise.

Many protein complements are designed to sell protein complements.

The normal daily RDA for a body is 56gms, ( I think, I am open to corrections)
So how far in excess are you taking in protein? Bearing in mind the TYPE of exercise you are doing, most people already eat more protein than they need.

Rather than complements there are alternatives of food combinations that supply the amino acids that you require in a far easier to assimilate form, and are much easier on the body both in long and short term.
For example a combination of rice and legumes provides an almost perfect balance of amino acids for the body, and, apart from a bit of potential socially embarrassing side-effects, can be very enjoyable. (Curry and dal for example)
PM me if you want a bit more info.
 
#8
Dwarf said:
Simple question, how much protein does a body need daily?
Then are you doing anything to warrant increased levels of protein?
Most exercise burns carbo-hydrates which is what you need far more of, protein does not supply fuel for exercise.

Many protein complements are designed to sell protein complements.

The normal daily RDA for a body is 56gms, ( I think, I am open to corrections)
So how far in excess are you taking in protein? Bearing in mind the TYPE of exercise you are doing, most people already eat more protein than they need.

Rather than complements there are alternatives of food combinations that supply the amino acids that you require in a far easier to assimilate form, and are much easier on the body both in long and short term.
For example a combination of rice and legumes provides an almost perfect balance of amino acids for the body, and, apart from a bit of potential socially embarrassing side-effects, can be very enjoyable. (Curry and dal for example)
PM me if you want a bit more info.

Aren't the RDA's commonly regarded as sh*te though?

Thought up in the 70's and not revised since!
 
#9
Dwarf said:
Simple question, how much protein does a body need daily?
Then are you doing anything to warrant increased levels of protein?
Most exercise burns carbo-hydrates which is what you need far more of, protein does not supply fuel for exercise.

Many protein complements are designed to sell protein complements.

The normal daily RDA for a body is 56gms, ( I think, I am open to corrections)
So how far in excess are you taking in protein? Bearing in mind the TYPE of exercise you are doing, most people already eat more protein than they need.

Rather than complements there are alternatives of food combinations that supply the amino acids that you require in a far easier to assimilate form, and are much easier on the body both in long and short term.
For example a combination of rice and legumes provides an almost perfect balance of amino acids for the body, and, apart from a bit of potential socially embarrassing side-effects, can be very enjoyable. (Curry and dal for example)
PM me if you want a bit more info.

56g of protein is nowhere near enough if you are trying to build muscle.

Weight trainers consume high protein diets because they work - end of story. Millions have experimented with protein levels for many decades I think that a huge experiment like that would have yielded some pretty conclusive evidence by now.

We are all different but in general if you want to gain muscle then 1g per pound of bodyweight is probably the minimum you should be aiming for.
 
#10
bulldoze said:
Dwarf said:
Simple question, how much protein does a body need daily?
Then are you doing anything to warrant increased levels of protein?
Most exercise burns carbo-hydrates which is what you need far more of, protein does not supply fuel for exercise.

Many protein complements are designed to sell protein complements.

The normal daily RDA for a body is 56gms, ( I think, I am open to corrections)
So how far in excess are you taking in protein? Bearing in mind the TYPE of exercise you are doing, most people already eat more protein than they need.

Rather than complements there are alternatives of food combinations that supply the amino acids that you require in a far easier to assimilate form, and are much easier on the body both in long and short term.
For example a combination of rice and legumes provides an almost perfect balance of amino acids for the body, and, apart from a bit of potential socially embarrassing side-effects, can be very enjoyable. (Curry and dal for example)
PM me if you want a bit more info.

56g of protein is nowhere near enough if you are trying to build muscle.

Weight trainers consume high protein diets because they work - end of story. Millions have experimented with protein levels for many decades I think that a huge experiment like that would have yielded some pretty conclusive evidence by now.

We are all different but in general if you want to gain muscle then 1g per pound of bodyweight is probably the minimum you should be aiming for.
I'm not disagreeing, and yes he needs to go over the norm, I just tend to be anti-supplements in that I think that you can get results from other sources, and you never know what goes into them.
But yes you can go over the top and eat too much which sets up problems for later life. Also it is often at the expense of other necessary foods, we often forget that we need a balanced diet.
Gunner needs to find his own balance.
 
#11
Yep there seems to be alot of conflicting opinions regarding the science of muscle building. I think the best thing to do is follow a basic, tried and tested method of eating a healthy diet with alot of protein.
 
#12
Glasgow_Jock said:
Protein is typically the most expensive of the 3 macro nutrients, and providing your water intake is sufficient a *high* protein diet will not have any adverse effects on your kidneys (providing you do not have a pre-existing kidney condition).

Some of the numbers being thrown around are simply absurd. Unless you're using aids such as steroids, you actually don't need to increase your protein intake considerably in order to support muscle tissue gains as the body will only utilise the protein you currently ingest more efficiently (a higher % not broken down and excreted as waste or stored as fat, but instead used to repair damaged muscle and support growth).

*Alot* of people will incorrectly attribute their gains to increased protein intake instead of actually factoring in improved diet, rest / sleep and resistance training. It's like saying eating dietary fats makes you fat, when it was really the surplus 1000 calories / day (that just so happened to be in the form of fats) that was making you overweight.

Just ensure that you are eating more calories than you expend (typically 10-15% more) in order to support growth. You need quality dietary fats (and arguably carbohydrates as well) in order to support muscle growth, not just protein.
A good post IMO.

No arguement about carbs though, you need carbs to grow and they are protein sparing. IME, people eat too much protein and not enough carbs.

My recommendation for those aiming to increase mass and training to suit, would be 1.5g protein to a pound of bodyweight. Don't forget that all protein adds up, it doesn't necessarily have to have a complete amino acid spectrum to be utilised by the body.

One thing to remember abotu protein is that amino acids cannot be stored in free form like carbs and fats can (as glycogen and apidose fat), so it is important to get some form of protein with every meal.
 
#13
When it comes down to weight training, has anyone else found that whilst they are able to lift increasingly higher weights, their push up, pull up and sit up numbers have stayed about the same?

Ive been working out for about a year now, and in that time my strength has improved enormously (even if it was **** in the first place), but i can still only push out 25 - 30 press ups maximum (in one go).

Should I focus more on reps than weight to increase my fitness and stamina?
 
#15
Functional weight, functional muscles, functional form

Alternatively get mahoosive and waddle the feck around

Shoulder width, palms forward, full hang pull ups sort the functional from the fat necks LOL
 
#16
1ManRiot said:
Glasgow_Jock said:
Protein is typically the most expensive of the 3 macro nutrients, and providing your water intake is sufficient a *high* protein diet will not have any adverse effects on your kidneys (providing you do not have a pre-existing kidney condition).

Some of the numbers being thrown around are simply absurd. Unless you're using aids such as steroids, you actually don't need to increase your protein intake considerably in order to support muscle tissue gains as the body will only utilise the protein you currently ingest more efficiently (a higher % not broken down and excreted as waste or stored as fat, but instead used to repair damaged muscle and support growth).

*Alot* of people will incorrectly attribute their gains to increased protein intake instead of actually factoring in improved diet, rest / sleep and resistance training. It's like saying eating dietary fats makes you fat, when it was really the surplus 1000 calories / day (that just so happened to be in the form of fats) that was making you overweight.

Just ensure that you are eating more calories than you expend (typically 10-15% more) in order to support growth. You need quality dietary fats (and arguably carbohydrates as well) in order to support muscle growth, not just protein.
A good post IMO.

No arguement about carbs though, you need carbs to grow and they are protein sparing. IME, people eat too much protein and not enough carbs.

My recommendation for those aiming to increase mass and training to suit, would be 1.5g protein to a pound of bodyweight. Don't forget that all protein adds up, it doesn't necessarily have to have a complete amino acid spectrum to be utilised by the body.

One thing to remember abotu protein is that amino acids cannot be stored in free form like carbs and fats can (as glycogen and apidose fat), so it is important to get some form of protein with every meal.
Would agree totally with the above, except that the last point.
Why? Because eating protein at every meal can easily lead to an excess.
Also protein and carbs need different mediums in the stomach to be digested, the former needs acid the latter alkaline, so basic chemistry
says that one will neutralise the other. Therefore if you eat the two at one meal then neither will be absorbed to it's best efficiency, much better to eat say steak and salad and/or lots of greens to allow for better assimilation.
I would say that one good protein meal, and one/two good carb meals is better than three less well absorbed meals, and is probably about the right proportions. Remember you don't actually want protein, you want amino acids which allow your body to construct proteins of the correct combinations. A cow/sheep/pig have different combinations and will not be absorbed 100%. Try to find foods that provide the AAs rather than concentrating simply on bits of meat, there is a surprisingly large variety, especially in pulses (natural carb/protein combination) and leafy greens which can supplement your steaks.

You didn't say why you are weight-training, is it for a task or to be a Swarzanegger? This will affect the above. If you want bulk then more protein meals, if you want strength/fitness combination then you want more of a tri-athlete's body which is it?
 
#17
Why? Because eating protein at every meal can easily lead to an excess.
Disagree. Define a excess for me please. My reasons still stand for protein with every meal, regardless of your goal; add to that the thermic affect and slowed gastric emptying.

Also protein and carbs need different mediums in the stomach to be digested, the former needs acid the latter alkaline, so basic chemistry
says that one will neutralise the other. Therefore if you eat the two at one meal then neither will be absorbed
This is just plain incorrect mate, I have no idea how you have come to this conclusion.

Remember you don't actually want protein, you want amino acids which allow your body to construct proteins of the correct combinations. A cow/sheep/pig have different combinations and will not be absorbed 100%.
I don't understand you here. It would be pretty much impossible and entirely pointless to try and isolate and consum indiviual amino acids!? All foods have hugely different amino acid spectrums and our body will worry about breaking them down and reconstituting them for enzymes and tissues.
 
#18
thegimp said:
Functional weight, functional muscles, functional form

Alternatively get mahoosive and waddle the feck around

Shoulder width, palms forward, full hang pull ups sort the functional from the fat necks LOL
Agreed - but I dont think anyone on here is talking about getting 'mahoosive' just bigger and stronger and that is a perfectly reasonable goal.
 
#20
A common mistake with factoring in protein supplements is taking large amounts of protein in one go. As has already been mentioned, protein cannot be stored in an intermediary form, unlike glucose and fats.

While you may calculate the amount of protein to take in order to increase gains, HOW you take it is just as, if not more, important. You have to space out your protein intake throughout the day in order to continually make use of it for the aforementioned reason.

Protein shake mid-morning and pre-workout (mid afternoon) and one before bedtime (mixed with milk for slower release overnight) as well as your 3 balanced meals a day works for me. Good points from everyone on carbs as well - not enough carbs = not enough energy = slow muscle repair and bad training.

One site which is almost a bible for me is http://www.rosstraining.com Its primarily aimed at fighters (I do Muay Thai and BJJ) but since they also tend to concentrate on functional exercises over form (no point getting massive then being too big for your natural weight division) then its really useful for military bods too.
Here's a linky to the thread on Ross' forums on nutrition http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10
Hope this helps.
 

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