Daily Mail - Derek Wood and David Howes

#1
The Wail is running another "investigative" piece into the events of 25yrs ago

SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: The lynch mob, the man of God and the truth about an atrocity seared on Britain's psyche | Mail Online

Where someone is "hinting" the two RSigs were sneaky beakies... Evidently the lack of supporting evidence, background checking, contradictions, and even a cursory read of Army operations in NI (and a chat with former 'Operators') doesn't stop them publishing tosh. Never heard of 12 Int before though.

(apologies if another thread exists)
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
I remember that day. I was asked to go over for a look at the funeral. I wasn't that keen, so I really wasn't bothered when I found every route in (and out) sealed off.
Couldn't believe that inside the cordon there wasn't a sinner about, no kids, no traffic, no people about at all. It just didn't feel right.
Hit a friends place for a pot of tea and watched the thing unfold on the news. Terrible day, saw the hele tele footage eventually. It should have been broadcast on the day.
Still to this day cannot work out what they were doing or how they got there.

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#3
I really despair of this tragic event being highlighted again, although it is understandable to a certain extent, being the 25th anniversary etc (Christ, I can't believe how time flies).
David "Bob" Howes was a friend and colleague of mine and it breaks my heart to see that photograph. I only wish this Government of ours would invest even a tiny bit of the financial and legal effort they threw at Bloody Sunday (rightly) and finally bring to justice ALL the fcukers involved in this atrocity. But, of course, that won't play out well with the Republican side will it?
Let them rest in peace.
 
#4
Typical Daily Mail speculation with Pendlebury drawing incorrect conclusions from evidence so scanty its laughable.

I was a JNCO on duty in a (one star) Lisburn ops room that day. The incident was a tragic mistake on the part of the 2 R Sigs lads who accidentally strayed into an OOB area, during their HO/TO - nothing more. Speculation that there was an element of "military tourism" is precisely that. Both were serving with a RSigs capbadge unit at the time, not INT CORPS, or attached.

"12 Int" was 12 Int & Sy Coy. The "courier" relationship with 14 Int is complete bollocks. 12 provided CI, security and liaison support to security forces. Many units moved people, equipment and documents around the province using civilian vehicles with armed soldiers in civvies, for example RAOC and RE P&C.

There was no RUC LO on duty at my ops room. In fact I never saw one at that HQ. I recall there were 2 Capt watchkeepers, although there may have only been one?

I can't comment on why green c/s didn't react sooner. However, given that the area was OOB to all c/s that day, I suggest that the nearest help was some distance away.

Post incident I am aware that much better training was introduced for troops to protect themselves.
 
#5
I remember hearing talk about 12 Int as a young tom. I don’t know what they did as they were lumped in with the rest of the gray army, and referred to with the Generic name of “Muppet” Call signs .This may have just been in my Bn, but terms such as the Det did not become general until the first kiss and tell books came out.

The inference that they were a support unit to 14 Int is new to me, I seem to remember that they did a covert roll but not in the province.

I have posted my small part in the events of that time on another thread, and would only add that I continue to visit Dereck Wood’s grave when work takes me over that way and it is still immaculately tended.
 
#6
Given the plethora of open source material available the inaccuracies in this article seem inexplicable.
 
#7
I remember this disgusting incident well. From what I know, this was a handover of a driving job for civilian contractors and the incumbent tried to big up the job then drove into an area where the venom against anything British was out on the streets. The priest laid bare the courage and backbone of the Catholic Church by doing **** all to help 2 men that were about to be murdered.
 
#8
I remember this disgusting incident well. From what I know, this was a handover of a driving job for civilian contractors and the incumbent tried to big up the job then drove into an area where the venom against anything British was out on the streets. The priest laid bare the courage and backbone of the Catholic Church by doing **** all to help 2 men that were about to be murdered.
To be fair to the priest, he had absolutely no chance of stopping the torrent of hatred on display that day.
 
#10
The Wail is running another "investigative" piece into the events of 25yrs ago

SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: The lynch mob, the man of God and the truth about an atrocity seared on Britain's psyche | Mail Online


Where someone is "hinting" the two RSigs were sneaky beakies... Evidently the lack of supporting evidence, background checking, contradictions, and even a cursory read of Army operations in NI (and a chat with former 'Operators') doesn't stop them publishing tosh. Never heard of 12 Int before though.

(apologies if another thread exists)
They were'nt sneaks. 1 was a driver for a civ sigs contractor based in Kinnegar.
As I remember at the time there were loads of wannabes waltos wandering around with shoulder holsters that wanted to look the part but clueless how to act it.
 
#11
They were'nt sneaks. 1 was a driver for a civ sigs contractor based in Kinnegar.
As I remember at the time there were loads of wannabes waltos wandering around with shoulder holsters that wanted to look the part but clueless how to act it.
However, the car was fitted out for. I have seen the full Heli-tele video as part of my then, chancellor instructors course (superseded Heli-tele). The car had smoke dispensing/distraction units fitted which can be seen igniting/exploding when the fire brigade are extinguishing it. The occupants were not trained in there use This event was the reason why we bought chancellor (NASA camera) and fitted to Lynx, as the Heli-tele was deemed not admissible in court due to clarity.


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#12
However, the car was fitted out for. I have seen the full Heli-tele video as part of my then, chancellor instructors course (superseded Heli-tele). The car had smoke dispensing/distraction units fitted which can be seen igniting/exploding when the fire brigade are extinguishing it. The occupants were not trained in there use This event was the reason why we bought chancellor (NASA camera) and fitted to Lynx, as the Heli-tele was deemed not admissible in court due to clarity.


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There was a package put together at the time known as a car kit. What the **** it was supposed to achieve is beyond me now and was a bewilderment even then. The best policy was simply to avoid trouble at any cost. I travelled once with 2 sncos that used to stick a round in the breech then shove the pistol down the front of their jeans with the most likely outcome being that 1 day they will shoot their bollocks off. Madness, crazy idiots.
 
#13
I remember that day. I was asked to go over for a look at the funeral. I wasn't that keen, so I really wasn't bothered when I found every route in (and out) sealed off.
Couldn't believe that inside the cordon there wasn't a sinner about, no kids, no traffic, no people about at all. It just didn't feel right.
Hit a friends place for a pot of tea and watched the thing unfold on the news. Terrible day, saw the hele tele footage eventually. It should have been broadcast on the day.
Still to this day cannot work out what they were doing or how they got there.
AIUI (and huge apologies if this wrong or insensitive); doing what all us young blokes did out there given half a chance - getting some civvies on and having a cabbie, in this case one taking the other out for an "orientation" drive. And hence the lack of an official explanation (or, as the DM hints, 'tight-lipped MOD').

What really galls me in the story isn't so much the Wail's crass story - they are journalists and as such sensationalism trumps facts, I don't expect anything else and so in a sense 'understand ' it - but rather, one or two former servicemen have fed them bollocks as fact, and probably received a fee for it.

In my humble opinion, that makes them lower than the journalist who wrote the article and the editor who printed it.
 
#15
#16
It'll be like everything else regarding NI in the dark days of the troubles...you'll never know the real way of it! and never will. there will be plenty of ex storemen and clerks who used to pose around the bars in lisburn wearing shoulder-holsters who will say different on here though.
 
#17
However, the car was fitted out for. I have seen the full Heli-tele video as part of my then, chancellor instructors course (superseded Heli-tele). The car had smoke dispensing/distraction units fitted which can be seen igniting/exploding when the fire brigade are extinguishing it. The occupants were not trained in there use This event was the reason why we bought chancellor (NASA camera) and fitted to Lynx, as the Heli-tele was deemed not admissible in court due to clarity.


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Just because the car had (or didn't have) smoke units didn't make them undercover or 'sneaks' as you put it. I had a shitload of cars at that time that had all sorts of gizmos including smoke pots - no 'sneakiness' required.

I would however be surprised if an 'admin' car from 233 had smoke pots fitted and I can't believe they were anything but guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
#18
You'd have been the first man in there windmilling against a few hundred people would you?
I respect your opinion but I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would have gone near them that day, given the background to these funerals with Gibralter and Michael stone. There have been many priests out on the streets venomously spouting off about the British Army, there were none there to attack the ira with the same venom when 2 men were so cold bloodedly murdered.
 
#19
I respect your opinion but I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would have gone near them that day, given the background to these funerals with Gibralter and Michael stone. There have been many priests out on the streets venomously spouting off about the British Army, there were none there to attack the ira with the same venom when 2 men were so cold bloodedly murdered.
Mgr Toner was formerly of St Agnes's parish and St Peter's Cathedral in Belfast. He was a senior figure in the Diocese of Down and Connor. He had spearheaded inter-denominational work in Belfast and brought together St Peter's with St Anne's Church of Ireland cathedral through partnership with Dean John Shearer. Mgr Toner retired in 2006.
He told The Irish News that his tenure at St Peter's Cathedral began with the IRA ceasefire of 1994.
"I remember clearly that after I spent my first night here [at St Peter's], I woke up to news the ceasefire had been called," he said.
"That changed the whole atmosphere not only here in the parish but in the city and beyond."
"The Belfast Cathedral Partnership took shape very quickly, working firstly with Dean Jack Shearer and then with his successor Dean Houston McKelvey."
Mgr Toner served at the joint funeral service of Daniel McCann and Sean Savage, who were shot dead by the SAS in Gibraltar in 1998 along with fellow IRA member Mairead Farrell.
He said the killings of McCann (30) and Savage (24) along with Mairead Farrell were murder.
"Where Christian rules apply, where the commandments of God apply, these killings were murder, just as the killing of soldiers and policemen is murder and every murder draws a chorus of condemnation," he said.
Before the week was over, two British soldiers would be murdered in Andersonstown in the aftermath of a loyalist attack on mourners at the IRA funeral.
Mgr Toner later condemned the murders of corporals Derek Wood (24) and David Howes (23) whose car drove into mourners at the funeral of IRA man Kevin Brady.
 
#20
This was one of the most defining stories of the troubles for me. When it bought it home to me what risks of being a soldier my old man faced. And why he would sometimes retreat into himself.
Being a pad brat, I remember that this was the talk of the school the day after the footage was on the news.
Were the two fellas undercover? I doubt it very much. Just two more victims of a barbaric episode of Ulster's history.
RIP Scaleys.


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