Czech Troops In Afghanistan Seen As Cowards - Report

#1
Czech Troops In Afghanistan Seen As Cowards - Report
Date : 22/04/2009 @ 11:29
Source : Dow Jones News


PRAGUE (AFP)--Czech soldiers in Afghanistan have let their British command down by refusing to fight terrorists several times, the Czech daily DNES wrote Wednesday.

When asked by the Britons to attack Afghan rebels, the commander of a special operations unit, or SOG, said "we're not going to, it's dangerous," then ordered his men to get in trucks and return to the base.

On another occasion, an SOG commander decided that the task the Britons had set ran counter to the unit's mission. Yet another time, a commander said he couldn't help as his soldiers were on vacation.

"I find it hard to recover from the news I get about this unit. It harms the reputation of the army," Czech Defense Minister Vlasta Parkanova told the daily.

Her ministry is now investigating the commanders of the SOG unit of up to 35 soldiers, currently deployed as part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Logar province in eastern Afghanistan.

The daily said SOG shouldn't be confused with an acclaimed special unit of 100 soldiers serving in the southern Kandahar province within the Enduring Freedom operation.

The Czech army, which has lost three soldiers in Afghanistan since 2007, has another 275 people working in the Logar provincial reconstruction team, serving under ISAF.

The SOG commanders argued that Czech laws didn't say clearly whether their unit, trained to free hostages, should also help fight terrorists or protect humanitarian convoys.

The daily added the army was looking into the relevant law, but it was too late to mend its reputation now that that the Britons had started to work with Danish troops instead, leaving the specially trained Czech soldiers to serve as ordinary guards or bodyguards for diplomats.

A Czech soldier who was left guarding the base recalled how the Britons and Danes "left to fight and only laughed at us with contempt."
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=RSSFeed-News&id=b0fbc37a-7b45-4bfd-a93a-4a240c494059&Headline=Czech+troops+in+Afghanistan+seen+as+cowards%3A+report



someone mentioned on here before. that there were problems with some Czech SF fellas. :?
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#2
The Czech SF that were in Helmand when i was there were ****ing lunatics, and definately loved getting stuck in with the Taleban.

One of our bloke who had been injured and apparently left behind whilst attached to another unit, was apparently rescued by Czech SF rocking up on their Quads.
 
#3
The Czechs I met and worked with in Theatre last year seemed very professional and committed to the task. I didn't see them out in combat but it seems to me that this article is a crock of s!te.

Only my opinion of course but probably more valid than the authors.
 
#4
When asked by the Britons to attack Afghan rebels, the commander of a special operations unit, or SOG, said "we're not going to, it's dangerous," then ordered his men to get in trucks and return to the base.
It is indeed very dangerous. The commader is not a coward at all. He is wise. His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins.

As for the rebels then it is internal business of Afghan government to fight with them.

On another occasion, an SOG commander decided that the task the Britons had set ran counter to the unit's mission.
If he has right to decide what orders he should obey and what ones not then let it be this way. No doubt the commander is a professional.

"I find it hard to recover from the news I get about this unit. It harms the reputation of the army," Czech Defense Minister Vlasta Parkanova told the daily.
Mrs.Pakranova is free to fight herself in Afghanistan. By the way Soviet leader didn't force Czechs, Poles, Hungarians and other participants of Warsaw Pact to fight in Afghanistan in 80's.
 
#5
KGB_resident said:
When asked by the Britons to attack Afghan rebels, the commander of a special operations unit, or SOG, said "we're not going to, it's dangerous," then ordered his men to get in trucks and return to the base.
It is indeed very dangerous. The commader is not a coward at all. He is wise. His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins.
His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins AND achive the goals set by him by the Czech government. If he made a judgment that conflicted with that of the British commander that was based on a genuine difference of opinion or differing ROE then fine. If he's making up Czech foreign policy on the spot he needs to go.
 
#6
Dow Jones News report or the word of two posters here who have worked with the Czech's out in Afghanistan?
I'll take the word of Herrumph and Crowbag, in turn I'll take the report with a pinch of salt.
 
#7
parapauk said:
KGB_resident said:
When asked by the Britons to attack Afghan rebels, the commander of a special operations unit, or SOG, said "we're not going to, it's dangerous," then ordered his men to get in trucks and return to the base.
It is indeed very dangerous. The commader is not a coward at all. He is wise. His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins.
His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins AND achive the goals set by him by the Czech government.
We don't know anything about the goals. What if they are to imitate activity, to simulate active participation in the operation in Afganistan?

It is possible. If not then Czech government could order the commander unconditionally obey all oerders issued by the British. Apparently the commanders hasn't recived such instruction.

What is importance of Afghanistan for Czech republic? About zero. So the commander taking it into account as a professional makes the best decisions possible.

parapauk said:
If he made a judgment that conflicted with that of the British commander that was based on a genuine difference of opinion or differing ROE then fine. If he's making up Czech foreign policy on the spot he needs to go.
I'm sure that he is not a policy maker. Moreover I suspect that the rection of the Minister of Defense is false.
 
#8
KGB_resident said:
What if they are to imitate activity, to simulate active participation in the operation in Afganistan?
What are you blabbering about. :? That is just complete b0llocks.
 
#9
I worked with the Czechs on Telic and they were gleaming. We had a Czech sniper attached to us on one Op and he was very switched on. I would work with the Czechs any day of the week. This to me just sounds like a need to clarify ROE/mission for that specific task.
 
#10
Ord_Sgt said:
KGB_resident said:
What if they are to imitate activity, to simulate active participation in the operation in Afganistan?
What are you blabbering about. :? That is just complete b0llocks.
Far from it. Moreover not only the Czeches but also our German friends think and act in the same direction. Complete withdrawal from Afghanistan would be politically incorrect. So they try to bound their activity making it in fact symbolic.
 
#11
KGB_resident said:
Ord_Sgt said:
KGB_resident said:
What if they are to imitate activity, to simulate active participation in the operation in Afganistan?
What are you blabbering about. :? That is just complete b0llocks.
Far from it. Moreover not only the Czeches but also our German friends think and act in the same direction. Complete withdrawal from Afghanistan would be politically incorrect. So they try to bound their activity making it in fact symbolic.
You never were Army, were you Sergey?

If you were, you must have been a. a conscript and b. crap. Certainly no G3 wallah......
 
#12
in_the_cheapseats said:
KGB_resident said:
Ord_Sgt said:
KGB_resident said:
What if they are to imitate activity, to simulate active participation in the operation in Afganistan?
What are you blabbering about. :? That is just complete b0llocks.
Far from it. Moreover not only the Czeches but also our German friends think and act in the same direction. Complete withdrawal from Afghanistan would be politically incorrect. So they try to bound their activity making it in fact symbolic.
You never were Army, were you Sergey?

If you were, you must have been a. a conscript and b. crap. Certainly no G3 wallah......
Thank you dear friend for your post. As for
a. it is not right.
b. it is your personal point of view that I respect.

G3... On Russian soil it means General Staff GRU Spetsnaz. No... So I was not G3 wallah. My uncle is a retired colonel of GRU.
 
#13
KGB_resident said:
in_the_cheapseats said:
KGB_resident said:
Ord_Sgt said:
KGB_resident said:
What if they are to imitate activity, to simulate active participation in the operation in Afganistan?
What are you blabbering about. :? That is just complete b0llocks.
Far from it. Moreover not only the Czeches but also our German friends think and act in the same direction. Complete withdrawal from Afghanistan would be politically incorrect. So they try to bound their activity making it in fact symbolic.
You never were Army, were you Sergey?

If you were, you must have been a. a conscript and b. crap. Certainly no G3 wallah......
Thank you dear friend for your post. As for
a. it is not right.
b. it is your personal point of view that I respect.

G3... On Russian soil it means General Staff GRU Spetsnaz. No... So I was not G3 wallah. My uncle is a retired colonel of GRU.
So you were neither and therefore should have no opinion on what a commander does on the ground as you have no practical oe valid experience to make comment from.

As to your uncle, so what? He isn't you and you have none of his experience either.
 
#14
in_the_cheapseats said:
So you were neither and therefore should have no opinion on what a commander does on the ground as you have no practical oe valid experience to make comment from.
Well then, please. express your learned opinion.

So we has a fact: the Czech commander avoids dangerous engagements. I have proposed 2 reasons for it.

1. The commander wishes to return to his motherland with all his boys alive and safe. I suggest that for him it is a paramount.

2. Czech government tries to participate in the operation in Afghanistan rather symbolically and to avoid any protests connected to unwanted loses in the country.

Both these points are based merely on a common sense and knowedge of 'how politicians speak and act' (they are 2 separate matters).

As for absurd claims that Czech Troops as 'cowards' then I disagree with the statement completely.

Dear In_the_cheapseats, I welcome personal remarks toward my modest person further. However, it would be very kind of you, fair sir, to propose your explanation, your vision.
 
#16
Utter bollocks, I'm afraid.

At the start of this year I was fortunate enough to spend 2 months working (as a civvy) at PRT Logar or P******* as it's called. The new unit who took over in January are absolutely spot on, I won't mention units or owt, but these guys are among the best the Czech Army have.

"IF" there is any truth to the rumour (I have trouble believing it myself), it wasn't cowardice. Simply the fact that the unit (who left in January) were already far too stretched with their commitments due to the fact that they had a huge workload and was an understrength battlegroup in place at the time.

MOD's please delete for OPSEC if necessary.
 
#17
Good to hear from the lads 'on the ground' who have seen no evidence to back up the crap article and as can be seen by the above posts, state what they have seen and know of the Czechs that they are anything but cowards!

We worked side by side with a Czech EOD Team in Bosnia, who specialised in chemical weapons, a top bunch who worked hard and played harder... it would have shocked me to think there was any truth in that article!
 
#18
KGB_resident said:
in_the_cheapseats said:
So you were neither and therefore should have no opinion on what a commander does on the ground as you have no practical oe valid experience to make comment from.
Well then, please. express your learned opinion.

So we has a fact: the Czech commander avoids dangerous engagements. I have proposed 2 reasons for it.

1. The commander wishes to return to his motherland with all his boys alive and safe. I suggest that for him it is a paramount.

2. Czech government tries to participate in the operation in Afghanistan rather symbolically and to avoid any protests connected to unwanted loses in the country.

Both these points are based merely on a common sense and knowedge of 'how politicians speak and act' (they are 2 separate matters).

As for absurd claims that Czech Troops as 'cowards' then I disagree with the statement completely.

Dear In_the_cheapseats, I welcome personal remarks toward my modest person further. However, it would be very kind of you, fair sir, to propose your explanation, your vision.
Sergey, Sergey....Perhaps if you knew what a military commanders role is on operations you wouldn't have said this. But then I suppose we now need to make allowances for you.

Thank you for not disagreeing that you have neither experience or competence in making the comments that you have about ongoing operations, only a "knowledge of how politicians speak and act". I'll remember that and will remind you off it again in the future, Sergey.

Ignorance is to be pitied after all :roll:

As to my explanation. It is the CZECH government who has queried the competence of this units military commander on the ground, not another country and on the instigation and exposure of the story by its own national press.

KGB_resident said:
When asked by the Britons to attack Afghan rebels, the commander of a special operations unit, or SOG, said "we're not going to, it's dangerous," then ordered his men to get in trucks and return to the base.
It is indeed very dangerous. The commader is not a coward at all. He is wise. His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins.
Of course his goal is to get everyone home; it is every military commanders :roll: . However a military commander has a mission to carry out and it is his job to ensure that he fulfils it, minimising risk in planning but accepting that some risk will remain.

I have worked with the Czech Army and staff and I found them, as other posters here have to be completely onside and very competent. As all the rest of the Czech units are having a grand old time kicking arse, the problem lies here in one unit only, its commanders and their interpretation of what they think their role/orders are.

I give you again what the Czech on Defence Minister said.

"I find it hard to recover from the news I get about this unit. It harms the reputation of the army," Czech Defense Minister Vlasta Parkanova
It is up to the Czech government to review whether or not the commander on the ground met his instructions/orders/directives from his own country. If he did not, then they should remove him. If the unit is incompetent in the role it is in, perhaps it should be replaced.

However, I don't need to "know what politicians think or say; I know as someone who has represented his country on overseas operations that the actions of this commander, if the story has been reported correctly by the CZECH media, are hardly professional.

I think you will see a new commander for this unit on the ground shortly.

PS. Perhaps you should look at what the story is first before doing down some spurious strategic communication exercise in attempting to drive a wedge between NATO partners (for that is what Czechoslovakia and UK are,are they not). Is that the exercise of your little game this morning? Pretty lame, really.
 
#20
in_the_cheapseats said:
Sergey, Sergey....Perhaps if you knew what a military commanders role is on operations you wouldn't have said this. But then I suppose we now need to make allowances for you.

Thank you for not disagreeing that you have neither experience or competence in making the comments that you have about ongoing operations, only a "knowledge of how politicians speak and act". I'll remember that and will remind you off it again in the future, Sergey.
It would be only fair.

in_the_cheapseats said:
As to my explanation. It is the CZECH government who has queried the competence of this units military commander on the ground, not another country and on the instigation and exposure of the story by its own national press.
Now let's recall habits of politicians. Usually they say something without any intention to inform you about their real actions, plans and thought. If a politician says something then really something then it is only possible (with fairly small probability) that it is true.

Czech government could say anything but where are real actions? The government could claim that from this day Czech regiments will be included in British (American) chain of command. So each Czech regiment would be unconditionally obey orders issued by their allies. It hasn't been done. So it means that the remark made by Czech government is no more than a smokescreen intended to fool its NATO allies and other Czech regiments in Afghanistan will be as passive as possible.

in_the_cheapseats said:
KGB_resident said:
When asked by the Britons to attack Afghan rebels, the commander of a special operations unit, or SOG, said "we're not going to, it's dangerous," then ordered his men to get in trucks and return to the base.
It is indeed very dangerous. The commader is not a coward at all. He is wise. His goal is to return home all his boys and not in coffins.
Of course his goal is to get everyone home; it is every military commanders :roll: . However a military commander has a mission to carry out and it is his job to ensure that he fulfils it, minimising risk in planning but accepting that some risk will remain.
And what is the mission exactly in this case?

in_the_cheapseats said:
I have worked with the Czech Army and staff and I found them, as other posters here have to be completely onside and very competent. As all the rest of the Czech units are having a grand old time kicking arse, the problem lies here in one unit only, its commanders and their interpretation of what they think their role/orders are.
I see your point. So you are sure that the only cause is the commander, his attitude to the job, his understanding of the mission. It is not exactly equal but quite close to my point #1 (I may be wrong, of course).

As for my #2 then apparently you believe the statements made by the Czech government. Sorry, but I'm unable to share your vision. Btw, do you uncoditionally believe all statements made by British governemnt?

in_the_cheapseats said:
I give you again what the Czech on Defence Minister said.

"I find it hard to recover from the news I get about this unit. It harms the reputation of the army," Czech Defense Minister Vlasta Parkanova
They are empty words without real actions.

in_the_cheapseats said:
It is up to the Czech government to review whether or not the commander on the ground met his instructions/orders/directives from his own country. If he did not, then they should remove him. If the unit is incompetent in the role it is in, perhaps it should be replaced.
They should... indeed they should but must not and likely would not.

in_the_cheapseats said:
However, I don't need to "know what politicians think or say; I know as someone who has represented his country on overseas operations that the actions of this commander, if the story has been reported correctly by the CZECH media, are hardly professional.
So we have options:

1. Not a professional.
2. A Coward.
3. A realist who acted with (maybe unvoiced) support of Czech government.

in_the_cheapseats said:
I think you will see a new commander for this unit on the ground shortly.
Who could continue the same line. I strongly doubt that the Czech would actively participate in offensive operations.

in_the_cheapseats said:
PS. Perhaps you should look at what the story is first before doing down some spurious strategic communication exercise in attempting to drive a wedge between NATO partners (for that is what Czechoslovakia and UK are,are they not). Is that the exercise of your little game this morning? Pretty lame, really.
Now there are two independent countries: Czech republic and Slovakia. We speak about Czech troops in Afghanistan.

http://www.radio.cz/en/news/112089

However the future of all 400 Czech troops in Afghanistan is now hanging in the balance after Parliament rejected a bill on the army’s foreign missions in 2009. Their mandate in the country was temporarily extended by the government and a new vote is expected in the lower house shortly. The government has had to cut back on plans to extend the country’s forces abroad, promising to cut back on the number of troops serving in ISAF and to end Czech participation in the US-led operation Enduring Freedom by the end of the year.
But our American friends would be very unhappy. So after a pressure from Washington...

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...pprove_troops_for_Afghanistan_Kosovo_in_2009_

Lawmakers approved the military deployments abroad in a 105-66 vote, while 14 abstained.

Under the approved plan, the Czech Republic can station up to 480 soldiers under NATO's International Security Assistance Force mission in Afghanistan, down from cabinet's original request for up to 645 troops but a slight boost from the 2008 limit of 415 soldiers.

But the Central European country of 10.3 million is to withdraw 100 special-forces troops from the US-led Enduring Freedom mission in Afghanistan by the end of the year.

Defence Minister Vlasta Parkanova said earlier that the troops would leave the country in October.
So the most valuable Czech special-forces troops will leave Afghanistan this year. And I suspect that their commander would try to save lives first of all.
 

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