CVF and Carrier Strike thread

Which was one of the most stupid decisions since buying Merlin against best advice in the first place.
We could have replaced the entire mess of Wildcat and Merlin with a single fleet of SH-60's, doubling the number of real ASW helicopters at a stroke - and doubling the number of surface attack helicopters, all for for less money than fiddling with Merlin, (its still broke), and bringing into service the too small to do much and entirely new, (so spare us the claims SH-60 would have meant bringing in to service a new type), Wildcat.

No ones buying Merlin, (eye wateringly expensive and unreliable) no ones buying Wildcat, (eye wateringly expensive and too small), meanwhile, NH-90 and SH-60 are selling by the hundreds - guess why?
I have mentioned before in reply to your comments on Wildcat and your obvious lack of knowledge of the type.

I can only comment on certain areas - mostly with regards to its sensor fit. It is light years ahead of the fit on the SH-60 - as its radar is the close relative of that on the Crowsnest the capabilities of that should be mind-blowing. If you had access to documentation relating to the trials of the type you would be complaining about a number of matters relating to the Wildcats capabilities (which you have not raised) but singing its praises in a large number of others.

If I were the OC of a frigate with one of them on board I would be very happy of its presence.
 

Yokel

LE
There was headroom in the budget with a small amount of extra funding on offer to convert the spare 8.
Quick! break out the Sawzalls! was the response.
Its almost as someone didn't want 8 more hanger queens added back intuo the fleet.

Was there a spare £200+ million somwhere? If upgrading thirty aircraft cost circa £850 million, then how much would it have cost to upgrade the remaining eight?

I have mentioned before in reply to your comments on Wildcat and your obvious lack of knowledge of the type.

I can only comment on certain areas - mostly with regards to its sensor fit. It is light years ahead of the fit on the SH-60 - as its radar is the close relative of that on the Crowsnest the capabilities of that should be mind-blowing. If you had access to documentation relating to the trials of the type you would be complaining about a number of matters relating to the Wildcats capabilities (which you have not raised) but singing its praises in a large number of others.

If I were the OC of a frigate with one of them on board I would be very happy of its presence.

Avionics is where the money goes - and why naval helicopters are expensive. Apart from cheaper American types where the manufacturer is paid for the airframe and the Government provides things like engines and avionics.

Anyway, people might think that the Royal Navy has operational experience of operating heavyweight ASW helicopters from carriers (or similar) alongside smaller ones aboard frigates and destroyers. They might also think that our ASW helicopter requirements are influenced by the need to conduct blue water ASW in places such as the North Atlantic, and the need to operate a task group.
 

Londo

LE
There was headroom in the budget with a small amount of extra funding on offer to convert the spare 8.
Quick! break out the Sawzalls! was the response.
Its almost as someone didn't want 8 more hanger queens added back into the fleet.
I like you . You make me laugh :D
 
@Not a Boffin
@jrwlynch
@alfred_the_great
@wafubustard
@flynavy

The gentlemen listed above may be able to give a you a proper answer - but I suspect your fetish for American kit and knowledge gained from reading articles about US equipment and tactics would make it hard. You cannot educate pork.

At least you have admitted that in the timeframe in which the RN has not purchased any more Merlins, it has not purchased any others ASW types. Therefore saying "Merlin is crap at ASW because the RN has not ordered any more" just shows the trouble you have with logic. If it was so bad then it would never have got upgraded.
I'm not an ASW expert, but the subject can be analyzed through the application of a standard "Photex factor". Given that generally reliable indicator, buying SH-60 instead of Merlins would probably have been a very bad idea.
 
I wish the powers that be would find the money to convert those eight airframes . We badly need them . (plus a few gearboxes I will admit)
I can think of a few things outside of the defence budget that could be scrapped and that money given to defence .

Classify them as essential to Track and Trace where there's billions being wanked away
 
... bringing into service the too small to do much and entirely new Wildcat.
Remind us again, exactly which helicopter type destroyed the entire Iraqi Navy in 1991, and most of it in 2003? (Not to mention a tidy job in 1982) Oh yes, Lynx / Sea Skua. If it's big enough to do the job, it's big enough.

Remind us again, after your history of going on about how the lack of an AESA radar undermined the Typhoon, what one key difference is between the Wildcat and current SH-60 radars?
 
Published by: James Knuckey,FORCES NET, on 23 September 2021.

HMS Queen Elizabeth Welcomes New Captain

Captain Ian Feasey has become the aircraft carrier's fifth commanding officer and takes over from Captain Angus Essenhigh.

Captain Ian Feasey takes over from Captain Angus Essenhigh (right) as captain of HMS Queen Elizabeth 230921 CREDIT HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH, TWITTER
Captain Ian Feasey (left) has taken over from Captain Angus Essenhigh (right) (Picture: HMS Queen Elizabeth/Twitter).

The Royal Navy flagship HMS Queen Elizabeth has welcomed a new captain.

Captain Ian Feasey takes over from Captain Angus Essenhigh who took up the post in January 2020.

On the aircraft carrier's official Twitter account, the ship said: "We say goodbye and a huge thank you to Capt Angus Essenhigh OBE RN . . .

Follow link for rest of the article . . .

 
Sawzalling the tails off and cannibalising them to hulks is effectively scrapping them.
It will cost more to put them back together again than buying new.
Do you understand the concept behind RTP?

If it's so shit and they can't wait to bin it why this?


It's rhetorical sparky....
 

Londo

LE
Do you understand the concept behind RTP?

If it's so shit and they can't wait to bin it why this?


It's rhetorical sparky....
Excellent news . Just need those last eight being brought back into service and I'll be a happy chappie .
 
Ian is a top chap, and a great CO.
 
Excellent news . Just need those last eight being brought back into service and I'll be a happy chappie .
We keep the others in service by robbing those 8, that's the best use for them if you're brassic.
 
Excellent news . Just need those last eight being brought back into service and I'll be a happy chappie .
Those eight were never upgraded from HM1. It would be cheaper and more effective to buy a new batch. Trouble is, right now there's no money for either.
 

Londo

LE
Those eight were never upgraded from HM1. It would be cheaper and more effective to buy a new batch. Trouble is, right now there's no money for either.
In agreement here . I just wish we could take the money from some of the more wasteful things we throw the money at and buy eight new . Plus a couple of dozen more just to upset one of our esteemed members :-D
 

Londo

LE
We keep the others in service by robbing those 8, that's the best use for them if you're brassic.
It's just a shame we are so brassic on defence . Plenty of taxpayers money being wasted on non essentials by this government .
 
It's just a shame we are so brassic on defence . Plenty of taxpayers money being wasted on non essentials by this government .
Like AFV's that dont work!

*Dons antiflash and adopts brace position*
 

Yokel

LE


Merlin HM2s already embarked aboard HMS Prince of Wales? How many I wonder? I wonder if Joint Warrior 21-2 will involve using carrier aircraft to defend Albion and other amphibious assets?
 
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Yokel

LE
Is this why the 207 Sqn jets disembarked last week and there have been no stories of ASW exercise activity - thus far?

Drones launched from HMS Prince of Wales during landmark demonstration

Fixed-wing drones – called the QinetiQ Banshee Jet 80+ – flew from the carrier’s vast flight deck to assess how they might be used to train personnel in defending against ever-more-capable fast jets and missiles.

The jet-powered Banshee, which looks like a mini fighter aircraft, can soar to 25,000ft, skim just above the waves, and flies at speeds up to 400 knots (around 460mph).

It is hard to detect on radar, giving it all the likeness of an incoming missile – making it a realistic adversary for sailors to train in countering aerial threats.

These drones could eventually be carried by Royal Navy warships and provide operational training to task groups wherever they might be in the world, allowing them to conduct air defence exercises on demand to test reactions and hone responses.

And the Banshee’s carrying capacity means the Royal Navy can use it for testing future sensors, weaponry and radio equipment.

HMS Prince of Wales is the first Royal Navy ship to carry these drones for demonstration purposes, as she moves towards being fully operational.

The Banshee flights represent the first step for the Royal Navy in exploring how crewless tech could be operated from the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers in the future.
 
Is this why the 207 Sqn jets disembarked last week and there have been no stories of ASW exercise activity - thus far?

Drones launched from HMS Prince of Wales during landmark demonstration

Fixed-wing drones – called the QinetiQ Banshee Jet 80+ – flew from the carrier’s vast flight deck to assess how they might be used to train personnel in defending against ever-more-capable fast jets and missiles.

The jet-powered Banshee, which looks like a mini fighter aircraft, can soar to 25,000ft, skim just above the waves, and flies at speeds up to 400 knots (around 460mph).

It is hard to detect on radar, giving it all the likeness of an incoming missile – making it a realistic adversary for sailors to train in countering aerial threats.

These drones could eventually be carried by Royal Navy warships and provide operational training to task groups wherever they might be in the world, allowing them to conduct air defence exercises on demand to test reactions and hone responses.

And the Banshee’s carrying capacity means the Royal Navy can use it for testing future sensors, weaponry and radio equipment.

HMS Prince of Wales is the first Royal Navy ship to carry these drones for demonstration purposes, as she moves towards being fully operational.

The Banshee flights represent the first step for the Royal Navy in exploring how crewless tech could be operated from the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers in the future.
Sat on its launcher . . . did anything look more like, remind you more of, one of Hitler's "Doodle-bugs" ?!

1.jpg


"The Banshee launched from the ship and recovered to land via parachute".

Somehow, I just think it will be improved with a wheeled undercarriage, and the ability to land, back on the flight deck !! ;) .
 
Is this why the 207 Sqn jets disembarked last week and there have been no stories of ASW exercise activity - thus far?

Drones launched from HMS Prince of Wales during landmark demonstration

Fixed-wing drones – called the QinetiQ Banshee Jet 80+ – flew from the carrier’s vast flight deck to assess how they might be used to train personnel in defending against ever-more-capable fast jets and missiles.

The jet-powered Banshee, which looks like a mini fighter aircraft, can soar to 25,000ft, skim just above the waves, and flies at speeds up to 400 knots (around 460mph).

It is hard to detect on radar, giving it all the likeness of an incoming missile – making it a realistic adversary for sailors to train in countering aerial threats.

These drones could eventually be carried by Royal Navy warships and provide operational training to task groups wherever they might be in the world, allowing them to conduct air defence exercises on demand to test reactions and hone responses.

And the Banshee’s carrying capacity means the Royal Navy can use it for testing future sensors, weaponry and radio equipment.

HMS Prince of Wales is the first Royal Navy ship to carry these drones for demonstration purposes, as she moves towards being fully operational.

The Banshee flights represent the first step for the Royal Navy in exploring how crewless tech could be operated from the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers in the future.
Could it just be the ASW capability has been continuously tested for real over the past couple of months elsewhere?
 

Yokel

LE
Sat on its launcher . . . did anything look more like, remind you more of, one of Hitler's "Doodle-bugs" ?!

1.jpg


"The Banshee launched from the ship and recovered to land via parachute".

Somehow, I just think it will be improved with a wheeled undercarriage, and the ability to land, back on the flight deck !! ;) .

No - it made me think of a carrier launching a target so that other ships working with her can practice finding it and directing aircraft from the carrier to intercept.

It also made me think of Ikara:

aswm-gb-IKARA-1.jpg


Ikara was superseded by frigates carrying bigger and better (faster) helicopters like the Lynx.

Could it just be the ASW capability has been continuously tested for real over the past couple of months elsewhere?

ASW id always a major part of Joint Warrior, and will be part of the NATO flagship role that HMS Prince of Wales will be taking on next year.
 

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