CVF and Carrier Strike thread

You don't always need a SAR capability onboard if you're operating within range of shoreside SAR.
 

Yokel

LE
Well - what was it Victor Meldrew used to say?

First F-35B Lightning landing on HMS Prince of Wales

Taking place off the south coast of England, the milestone marks a significant step towards the 65,000-tonne vessel reaching full operational capability.

Operating together as part of Sea Acceptance Trials, it is the first time a fixed wing aircraft has landed onboard HMS Prince of Wales. The trials test the ship’s capability to receive and launch aircraft whilst maintaining continuous air operations.


I thought that her FOST period would include a ASW exercise first, with Merlin HM2s embarked. Maybe some kind soul will tag me when she has multiple Pingers embarked? On which note, a number of them were in the air yesterday and seemed to not return to Culdrose...
 

Yokel

LE
The RN news article also mentions that the jet took off again.

HMS Prince of Wales manoeuvered into position to accept the aircraft which touched down on the sprawling flight deck with precision amid an air of excitement from the ship’s company.

“It was a real honour to be the first pilot to land the F-35B on HMS Prince of Wales,” said RAF Squadron Leader Will of 207 Squadron from Marham.

“With all the training that we have previously undertaken with HMS Queen Elizabeth we are now looking forward to using that experience and knowledge as we work with HMS Prince of Wales as she moves towards her full operational capability.”

Shortly after the first landing, the first take-off: Lieutenant Commander Ben, also from 207 Squadron – the joint RAF-Fleet Air Arm formation dedicated to teaching fast jet pilots how to fly and operate the stealth fighter – powered along the deck and leapt skywards courtesy of the carrier’s iconic ski ramp, blazing the trail for thousands of similar launches over the next half centu
ry.
 

Yokel

LE
'Iconic' ski ramp, eh?

Such hyperbole.

In many ways it is iconic. Invented by a Royal Navy Officer doing a PhD, and it has been a key part of STOVL carrier aviation. I have been unable to find Lt Cdr Doug Taylor's paper online, but other related papers demonstrate the elegance of it as a means of imparting upward velocity to a aircraft launching and increasing the angle of attack. Some tasty (ie not too complex) trigonometry too.

Tomorrow being Thursday, will Prince of Wales take part in the Thursday War? ASW was a big part of Queen Elizabeth's FOST work up.
 
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In many ways it is iconic. Invented by a Royal Navy Officer doing a PhD, and it has been a key part of STOVL carrier aviation. I have been unable to find Lt Cdr Doug Taylor's paper online, but other related papers demonstrate the elegance of it as a means of imparting upward velocity to a aircraft launching and increasing the angle of attack. Some tasty (ie not too complex) trigonometry too.

Tomorrow being Thursday, will Prince of Wales take part in the Thursday War? ASW was a big part of Queen Elizabeth's FOST work up.
I read somewhere that his inspiration for it was when he was aboard a carrier during Confrontation in the mid sixties, HMS Victorious I think, when they were passing through the Sunda Straight or the Lombok straight which were international waters but the Indonesians said that all ships had to have permissionto pass through. As there was an undeclared state of war between the UK and Indonesia the ship was on a hightened state of alert when the steam system for the catapult or some such failed at the crucial moment so that the ship was unable to launch aircraft. He designed the ski jump to ensure something like that didn't happen again.
 

Yokel

LE
I read somewhere that his inspiration for it was when he was aboard a carrier during Confrontation in the mid sixties, HMS Victorious I think, when they were passing through the Sunda Straight or the Lombok straight which were international waters but the Indonesians said that all ships had to have permissionto pass through. As there was an undeclared state of war between the UK and Indonesia the ship was on a hightened state of alert when the steam system for the catapult or some such failed at the crucial moment so that the ship was unable to launch aircraft. He designed the ski jump to ensure something like that didn't happen again.

Yes and happily it was at the same time as V/STOL aircraft were becoming feasible, and 'Through Deck Cruisers' were on the drawing board. Would the Sea Harriers have been able to launch with the same loads and range without it?
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
Yes and happily it was at the same time as V/STOL aircraft were becoming feasible, and 'Through Deck Cruisers' were on the drawing board. Would the Sea Harriers have been able to launch with the same loads and range without it?

Not without a significantly longer deck run...
 

Yokel

LE
I know - I forgot to add "in the Falklands". My guess is that without the ski jump then the Sea Harrier would have had trouble maintaining combat air patrols at the same range and for the same duration.
 
In many ways it is iconic. Invented by a Royal Navy Officer doing a PhD, and it has been a key part of STOVL carrier aviation. I have been unable to find Lt Cdr Doug Taylor's paper online, but other related papers demonstrate the elegance of it as a means of imparting upward velocity to a aircraft launching and increasing the angle of attack. Some tasty (ie not too complex) trigonometry too.

Tomorrow being Thursday, will Prince of Wales take part in the Thursday War? ASW was a big part of Queen Elizabeth's FOST work up.


No he didnt



Not even a new idea

An Barracuda taking off from HMS Furious in 1944 on an 'iconic' ski jump

830_Squadron_Barracuda_taking_off_from_HMS_Furious_at_the_start_of_Operation_Mascot.jpg
 

Yokel

LE
Not even a new idea

An Barracuda taking off from HMS Furious in 1944


View attachment 580247

Not a curved ramp though, was it? The point being that a curved ramp imparts and ballistic trajectory and throws the aircraft into the sky as well as simply increasing the angle of attack.

Not a cat in hells chance.

FOST do carrier specific training which must mean aircraft - she has already done the basic stuff.
 
FOST do carrier specific training which must mean aircraft - she has already done the basic stuff.
Which means having an airgroup to work up.

Difficult at the minute when the operational squadrons (as opposed to training or OCU) are in the Med and the f/w force is still building up.

She's doing useful stuff giving deck experience to the RAF, AAC - and I'd imagine CHF in due course. She may even get some 824 cabs doing DLP, but unlikely to be recreating Deep Blue any time soon. We're missing probably a squadrons worth of HM2 and it's not getting better anytime soon.
 

Yokel

LE
I was not referring to anything like Deep Blue, but I am sure that when Queen Elizabeth went through FOST she did some ASW with a couple of embarked Pingers.

I am sure I saw three Merlins from Culdrose airborne the other day...
 
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Not a curved ramp though, was it? The point being that a curved ramp imparts and ballistic trajectory and throws the aircraft into the sky as well as simply increasing the angle of attack.

the ballistic effect of the first ramp on Invincible was negligible.
the ramp on Furious was rigged for exactly the same reason as the one on Invincable. Get a plane off a short deck with a heavy fuel and weapons load.
see also the NACA paper from 1952 on curved ramps on carriers.

The Ski ramp was not invented in the 70’s.
 
I read somewhere that his inspiration for it was when he was aboard a carrier during Confrontation in the mid sixties, HMS Victorious I think, when they were passing through the Sunda Straight or the Lombok straight which were international waters but the Indonesians said that all ships had to have permissionto pass through. As there was an undeclared state of war between the UK and Indonesia the ship was on a hightened state of alert when the steam system for the catapult or some such failed at the crucial moment so that the ship was unable to launch aircraft. He designed the ski jump to ensure something like that didn't happen again.

And given increased AOA had given rise to some Yank puzzling aircraft handling procedures...

 

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