CVF and Carrier Strike thread

SSN, frigates, pingers, and MPA are all involved in integrated/coordinated ASW. The towed array frigates need to work in conjunction with dipping sonars (from helicopters), and the SSN has strengths and weakness as all platforms do.

However, my point was that 820NAS are capable of providing 24/7 ASW cover - and that would include protecting any amphibious forces or logistics shipping being escorted by the CSG. Transatlantic resupply is the theme of Steadfast Defender 21.
Agreed, however when astute is around they don’t need too.
 

Yokel

LE
Agreed, however when astute is around they don’t need too.

Defence in depth is for winners! Best not to rely on any single platform. I do not think any competent ASW commander would want to rely solely on the SSN (or allied SSK) for a number of reasons. Frigates (with helicopters) and submarines will often work together - as this 2018 news story mentions.

... was a chance to sharpen and refine procedures necessary to coordinate activity when dealing with a potential submarine threat.
 
Defence in depth is for winners! Best not to rely on any single platform. I do not think any competent ASW commander would want to rely solely on the SSN (or allied SSK) for a number of reasons. Frigates (with helicopters) and submarines will often work together - as this 2018 news story mentions.

... was a chance to sharpen and refine procedures necessary to coordinate activity when dealing with a potential submarine threat.
You have a SSN in the CBG, you win ASW.
 

Yokel

LE
You have a SSN in the CBG, you win ASW.

What if the opposition also has an SSN? Or quiet SSKs?

It adds to the mix . Perhaps the biggest add . But can it be in the right place at the right time ?

Submarines can go fast, or they can go quiet. If they are fast their ability to detect the enemy is reduced by a large margin. A helicopter can travel four or five times faster than an SSN and can respond rapidly.

The SSN will also have non ASW tasks as well.
 

ThunderBox

On ROPS
On ROPs
If it was just a flippant remark why call out me and @Solo Dave?

Well when I say flippant, i meant:

The issue has been raised, discussed and answered several times if you'd bothered to look.

And I was well across the 'issue' having been active in those threads, the fact you gave me a bullsh1t irked me and I reacted, which I since apologized and move on.

Would you prefer I self immolate to prove my apologies for my overreaction?

I always believed it took a bigger man to accept he was wrong and apologise, if you want me to argue like a tw@ and threaten to glass your face in a pub car park then I will change my name to @Staker 2.2
 

Yokel

LE
820NAS Merlins up....



Time for some ASW. The aircraft carrier is all about sea control, but SNMG1 and SNMG2 seem to be playing at sea denial and stopping transatlantic resupply.



Sea Control is NATO's main naval mission.
 

Yokel

LE
...and a security for such as pass on the seas on their lawful occasions...



The First Sea Lord may have forgotten to run his speech past a certain poster. I will be happy to post stories from the RN website or indeed Twitter regarding the exercise, but clearly HMS Queen Elizabeth, her embarked aircraft, and her strike/task group have delivered real capability.

It should be obvious that we would be able to put more Lightnings and Merlins aboard Queen Elizbeth if we were not going to put both aboard Prince of Wales in the very near future.
 
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Yokel

LE
Nothing on the RN website yet, or indeed the relevant Twitter feeds, except perhaps this:



However, NATO Allied Maritime Command has this story: NATO STANDING NAVAL FORCES PARTICIPATE IN EXERCISE STEADFAST DEFENDER 21 WITH UK QUEEN ELIZABETH CARRIER STRIKE GROUP

The Maritime LIVEX focused primarily on NATO’s ability to protect and defend essential Sea Lines of Communication (i.e. primary maritime routes) that enable transatlantic reinforcement if NATO needed to defend a member of the Alliance in an Article 5 situation. Article 5 outlines that if a NATO member is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider it as an armed attack against all members and will take any actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. This principle of collective defence is at the very heart of NATO’s founding treaty and binds its members together, committing them to protect each other and establishing a shared spirit of solidarity within the Alliance.

Maritime LIVEX highlights included a brief Combat Enhancement/Force Integration Training (CET/FIT) phase to ensure that all participating units were fully integrated and ready to conduct various high-intensity operations and assume specific roles/responsibilities as part of the exercise. Following the CET/FIT phase, NATO Groups participated in an ENCOUNTEREX free-play phase where they opposed the UK Carrier Strike Group led by HMS Queen Elizabeth. This was the second time in less than a month that one of NATO’s SNFs had interacted with the UK Carrier Strike Group as it prepares for its imminent seven-month deployment to the Indo-Pacific.

“Exercise Steadfast Defender 21 improved NATO Standing Naval Forces’ capability to respond collectively and decisively to an attack from various potential threats to NATO citizens, territorial integrity, shared interests and democratic values,” said Commodore Peats. “The scale, scope and variety of maritime capabilities and platforms involved, reflect NATO’s unwavering resolve to deter and defend in the Euro-Atlantic area. Exercise Steadfast Defender 21 demonstrated the value of North America and Europe working closely and seamlessly together to keep our nations safe in a constantly evolving and challenging global security environment.”

“Keeping the Alliance strong and ready is nowadays more important than it was ever. Steadfast Defender 21 provides an outstanding opportunity for SNMG1 and SNMG2 to operate in the same task group for the first time in this year 2021,” said Rear Admiral Manuel Aguirre Aldereguía, Commander SNMG2. “Working together and coordinating efforts in a synergistic way is a force multiplier and contributes decisively to show NATO strength and increase its deterrence and posture.”

Several Allied aircraft carriers, under national command, are deploying into SACEUR area of responsibility during these months, demonstrating Allied unity and commitment to effectively deliver multi-domain effects. The carrier strike activity demonstrates power projection over large distances with its unparalleled combat capability, and are a critical element of NATO deterrence.

I guess we will have to wait for the documentary by Chris Terill to find out about Lightnings being launched to deal with 'enemy' aircraft and Pinger Merlins launching to do ASW - all of them working with frigates, destroyers, and the SSN.
 

Yokel

LE
Ten hectic days for the Royal Navy's Carrier Strike Group

The Royal Navy was central to the maritime phase of exercise Steadfast Defender 2021, the first large-scale test of NATO’s adapted command structure, with the involvement of two new commands – for the Atlantic in Norfolk, Virginia and for logistics in Ulm, Germany.

As NATO’s biggest exercise this year, it aims to test readiness and military mobility, with forces deploying across land and sea, from North America to the Black Sea region. Twenty ships were involved in the maritime phase 20-28 May. A ‘free play’ scenario involved ships of SNMG 1 and SNMG 2 attempting to attack the carrier strike group charged with protecting merchant vessels crossing the Atlantic to Europe.


We have proved that:

1. The QEC can indeed operate aircraft.
2. We will have ASW Merlins and Lightnings aboard both carriers in the next few weeks.
3. 820NAS can provide 24/7 ASW defence for the carrier group and any forces or shipping being escorted.
4. Carriers are critically important to NATO.
5. The first real mission for HMS Queen Elizabeth, and the first part of the CSG21 deployment, was playing a key role in NATO deterrence activities to help keep the peace.

Time for me to concentrate on other things; SHIFT TARGET, SHIFT TARGET, SHIFT TARGET...
 
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Entente cordiale at sea with added USMC F-35s

E3BimC2XEAA-FH_.png
 

Yokel

LE
I accidentally clicked on this thread, whilst doing a search, and found myself a few pages back, and saw this picture of the inside of a Merlin HM2 with the Crowsnest fit.

Crowsnest-Equipment-Merlin-Mk2.jpg


Would I be right in assuming that if necessary, the Crowsnest kit (perhaps not the external structure that carriers and deploys the bag) could be removed and replaced with the ASW kit including the dipping sonar? The Merlin was designed so that the ASW kit could be removed in a few hours so that it could be used as a transport.

As for ASW, here is an American article: Close the gaps! Airborne ASW yesterday and tomorrow

In the 2010s, a new generation of ASW aircraft was flying. The P-8A Poseidon replaced the P-3C Orion and the MH-60R replaced the SH-60B and SH-60F. As witnessed during multiple ASW exercises, the combination of P-8As and MH-60Rs is nearly unstoppable. However, there is a clear capability gap at the strike group level. As a theater asset, the P-8s are limited in number, and fly missions across the fleet. The MH-60R has tremendous capability, but a limited range. It is not designed for area searching, but localizing a contact or conducting datum searches.

Two comments - firstly surely the ASW helicopter works in conjunction with a warship with towed array (active) sonar and/or a MPA, and secondly might that explain why Merlin was designed with a longer range/endurance in mind that its American or European counterparts?

Finally, is there any reason why Merlin HM2 cannot operate alongside Apache?



I presume that ASW will be part of her FOST training.
 

Yokel

LE
Thinking about it some more...

1. When CO 820NAS spoke on the RN website, he said that about eighty percent of squadron personnel were embarked about HMS Queen Elizabeth. Are the other fifth staying behind so that they can embark aboard Prince of Wales - and support flying operations.

2. The embarked Apaches have no SAR capability, so it is unlikely that they would go to sea with SAR capable cabs.

3. ASW will be part of the NATO command role next year - so needs training now.

@Not a Boffin am I making sense?
 
It could be the SAR capable Merlin was flying the phot who took the picture.
 

Yokel

LE
Has she got any Merlins embarked? There have been no announcements.

The source of the picture was this:

 

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