CVF and Carrier Strike thread

[alfred_the_great]

Er... I’m sure AtG will correct me, but I rather think that he’s done more than ‘see a picture’ of a Merlin (and an SH-60, for that matter).

I’m not going to blow his persec, obviously, but I don’t think it a wild suggestion that he probably knows more about the detail of operating a Merlin (and SH-60) from a T23 than most of us do. We’re almost, but not exactly, into ‘and what the **** would you know about the Iranian embassy siege, eh, General Sir Michael Rose, eh?’

Just saying...

Landed both on my deck.

I will re-iterate, for landing a -60 on a flight deck, the critical length is from rear castor wheel to front of disk, which is pretty long (and longer than rear wheel to front of disk for a Me1/2).

 

[Cold_Collation]

Earlier Seahawks had a rear wheel forward of that. Why abandon that?

ETA: I’m talking cock. That’s not a Romeo in the picture. It’s a Sierra.

 

[alfred_the_great]

Earlier Seahawks had a rear wheel forward of that. Why abandon that?

Pass.

 

[terminal]

The engines and DASS made the WAH-64 the best in the world at the time. It was a good buy and it took a good few years for everyone else, including the Americans, to catch up. But the -E was a correct, pragmatic choice.

You’re twisting facts.

SOI/Meerkatz/Photex has had this explained to him multiple times. He knows he's bullshitting. We know he's bullshitting. We also know he's bullshitting about ASW helicopters.

In fact given past history, if SOI/Meerkatz/Photex says that something which is not American is no good, chances are that it's actually a pretty good piece of of kit.

I strongly suspect that based on the "PF" (Photex Factor) index alone, the Merlin is probably a very good ASW helicopter.

 

[aardvark64]

SOI/Meerkatz/Photex has had this explained to him multiple times. He knows he's bullshitting. We know he's bullshitting. We also know he's bullshitting about ASW helicopters.

In fact given past history, if SOI/Meerkatz/Photex says that something which is not American is no good, chances are that it's actually a pretty good piece of of kit.

I strongly suspect that based on the "PF" (Photex Factor) index alone, the Merlin is probably a very good ASW helicopter.

So you think our esteemed Google/Wiki Warrior is actually an incredibly sophisticated anti-American troll? Maybe funded by OCCAR or some deep-state department within the EU to make us buy European or Japanese as a knee-jerk reaction? Or British as a last resort?

It's breathtaking, it really is.

Sorry for the thread drift, but 'Wow'.

 

[History_Man]

Landed both on my deck.

I will re-iterate, for landing a -60 on a flight deck, the critical length is from rear castor wheel to front of disk, which is pretty long (and longer than rear wheel to front of disk for a Me1/2).

View attachment 540467

That's a Sierra, not a Romeo.

 

[Raven2008]

Earlier Seahawks had a rear wheel forward of that. Why abandon that?

ETA: I’m talking cock. That’s not a Romeo in the picture. It’s a Sierra.

MH-60S is like the battlefield UH-60A/L aimed at Vertrep. sEAL support , SAR , limited AMCM so where as the traditional H-60 (B/F/R) is designed forputeöy anti sub surface warfare so most of cabin is taken up with kit, black boxed and sensor workstations.

cheers

 

[jrwlynch]

and after all the tears and drama, the US spec P-8 turned out to be a far better platform than the MRA4 was, or could ever be.

Well, when you're designing and building nearly a decade later (RMPA competition mid-1990s with contract award in 1996, P-8 Poseidon development contract awarded in 2004) you'd hardly expect technology to stand still...

Remind, me, how were we meant - in 1994 - to evaluate an aircraft that didn't even exist as a paper proposal for ten years hence?

While you're at it, what are the numbers for the next Euromillions rollover draw?

 

[RCT(V)]

it’s an easy mistake to make.
On paper, the Merlin doesn’t seem that big, but only because it’s got too small a rotor disk for the size of it’s huge airframe.

it’s big, really properly big

View attachment 540393

Phwoar!!


Are you sure the little one on the right, isn't just further away ?! .

 

[Cold_Collation]

MH-60S is like the battlefield UH-60A/L aimed at Vertrep. sEAL support , SAR , limited AMCM so where as the traditional H-60 (B/F/R) is designed forputeöy anti sub surface warfare so most of cabin is taken up with kit, black boxed and sensor workstations.

cheers

Aye.

But it's got a different footprint as a result.

 

[PhotEx]

Landed both on my deck.

I will re-iterate, for landing a -60 on a flight deck, the critical length is from rear castor wheel to front of disk, which is pretty long (and longer than rear wheel to front of disk for a Me1/2).

View attachment 540467

even pre Romeo models fit just fine

An HH-60H Seahawk helicopter from the USS Nimitz lands on HMS Dragon [Picture: Leading Airman (Photographer) Dave Jenkins, Crown copyright]

 

[Raven2008]

even pre Romeo models fit just fine

View attachment 540479

An HH-60H Seahawk helicopter from the USS Nimitz lands on HMS Dragon [Picture: Leading Airman (Photographer) Dave Jenkins, Crown copyright]

That’s not an HH-60H thats an MH-60S

heres HH-60H from HCS-5 in Desert Storm

 

[alfred_the_great]

Aye.

But it's got a different footprint as a result.

And you still have to land both on if you want to do ASW and Vertrep/general "stuff".

 

[PhotEx]

The engines and DASS made the WAH-64 the best in the world at the time. It was a good buy and it took a good few years for everyone else, including the Americans, to catch up. But the -E was a correct, pragmatic choice.

You’re twisting facts.

nope, we boxed ourselves into a dead end yet again with WAH-64.

we paid double for an incremental improvement over the then current US OTS version, and then couldn’t afford to keep improving it and it lapsed into obsolescence.
Its the same old same old, we fondly imagine the other blokes version won’t keep improving.

see the vast efforts and expense to get the non smokey Spey into the F-4, and by the time we got the Spey F-4 up and running, along come smokeless GE engines. And when later we bought a load of GE powered F-4’s, we found they had much better performance than our version.

see also the ‘visionary’ decision to choose the unproven WR-21 over the LM2500 for the Type 45’s - huzzah, workd beating engine! they are much more fuel efficient! and along comes the even more fuel efficient and utterly reliable LM2500R

Top tip:

if a U.K. manufacturer claims they can build a better version of someone else’s kit for half the price, run him out the door. It will almost invariably be 10 years late, twice the cost and half the performance.

 

[Raven2008]

My photos of ‚Wildcards‘ MH-60S from attending Dubai Air Show 2017

The ESSS pylons can carry either Hellfire if deemed necessary for mission, odd fuel tank and also the Airborne Mine Counter Measures kit etc etc

 

[PhotEx]

That’s not an HH-60H thats an MH-60S

heres HH-60H from HCS-5 in Desert Storm

View attachment 540480

you’ll need to take that up with MOD(N), they captioned it.

 

[History_Man]

nope, we boxed ourselves into a dead end yet again with WAH-64.

Some interesting issues with the comms fit...

 

[PhotEx]

So widely expected to be a shoo in as everyone in MOD loved it, Westland even bought a production licence and built one.
......Then Heseltine threw his teddies and forced the Navy to buy a very much bigger helicopter it didn’t want, and made sure the Army wouldn’t get the battlefield helicopter is really wanted.

 

[Raven2008]

And you still have to land both on if you want to do ASW and Vertrep/general "stuff".

you’ll need to take that up with MOD(N), they captioned it.

occasionally the MoD and even DoD Media mis Label ..can happen if under tight deadline to publish stuff. Over thr decades i have seen hardened experienced Aerospace professionals get wrong type of a/c.

I remember even correcting US Army Public Affairs for Dugway ProBing Hround as they been got labelled a Huey wrongly!

Something similar with US Navy public affairs got a photo wrong during one of the Cobra Gold exercises off Thailand with mislabelling Thai navy S-76N as a Seahawk!! Which both types the Thai navy uses.

cheers

 

[Raven2008]

So widely expected to be a shoo in as everyone in MOD loved it, Westland even bought a production licence and built one.
......Then Heseltine threw his teddies and forced MOD to buy a very much bigger helicopter they didn’t want.

View attachment 540489

Rolls Royce also owned the only civil registered Blackhawk as well G-RRTM of which my aero thermodynamics lecturer at uni flew in when he worked for Rolls Royce Leavesden.