CVF and Carrier Strike thread

Singapore would seem to be an ideal place to base a carrier with Changi Naval base regulary supporting US Navy Carriers, and Sembawang having ship repair facilities. Several military airfields to base the Air Group when the Carrier is in dock and a strategic position to get anywhere in the Far East.

Mind you it didn't bode well when the last HMS Prince of Wales visited Singapore. After only staying a week she left Sembawang and didn't come back.
 
Not sure how I feel about this. The Chinese are rivals but we should not make enemies of them. Leave the Americans to continue their great power games in the region with Japan and Australia and focus on Africa and the Middle East.
Agree. I don't think we should be considering them friends but that would just be a pointless provocation.
 
And one carrier, however capable in and of itself, is a bit token.
It's just an isolated target if things get a bit kinetic. You would need to forward base a CSG.....So pretty much move the RN from Portsmouth to Singapore.

If anything of ours ends up there it'll be a token Duke followed by token T-31.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
It's just an isolated target if things get a bit kinetic. You would need to forward base a CSG.....So pretty much move the RN from Portsmouth to Singapore.

If anything of ours ends up there it'll be a token Duke followed by token T-31.
That has to be the real worry. So, effectively, to do it properly, you'd have to base most of the RN out east. That leaves the rest of its tasks to cover, such as the North Atlantic and any amount of others.

Unless the QEII/POW operate as the core of a US carrier group...
 
That has to be the real worry. So, effectively, to do it properly, you'd have to base most of the RN out east. That leaves the rest of its tasks to cover, such as the North Atlantic and any amount of others.

Unless the QEII/POW operate as the core of a US carrier group...
Well they are diffy one baby flat top now.
 

W21A

LE
Book Reviewer
Let the Yanks do the confrontation stuff in the Pacific/SCS, we could pick up slack in the Atlantic/Med.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Let the Yanks do the confrontation stuff in the Pacific/SCS, we could pick up slack in the Atlantic/Med.
Our Cold War NATO role, in other words.

It would make a lot of sense. However, there's strategic visibility to consider - if the Americans are seen to be the true defenders of freedom/democracy (or however it's termed) in the Pacific Rim, that'll hoover up a lot of business opportunities.

Of course, we could just do something radical like spend money on a military which matches our professed strategic ambitions.




I'll hang fire for a while so you can stop laughing.
 
Our Cold War NATO role, in other words.

It would make a lot of sense. However, there's strategic visibility to consider - if the Americans are seen to be the true defenders of freedom/democracy (or however it's termed) in the Pacific Rim, that'll hoover up a lot of business opportunities.

Of course, we could just do something radical like spend money on a military which matches our professed strategic ambitions.




I'll hang fire for a while so you can stop laughing.
Don't kid yourself, I suspect HM armed forces are up for another round of "efficiency" savings.
 

Yarra

Old-Salt
Our Cold War NATO role, in other words.

It would make a lot of sense. However, there's strategic visibility to consider - if the Americans are seen to be the true defenders of freedom/democracy (or however it's termed) in the Pacific Rim, that'll hoover up a lot of business opportunities.

Of course, we could just do something radical like spend money on a military which matches our professed strategic ambitions.




I'll hang fire for a while so you can stop laughing.
The issue for our likely trading partners in the FE will not only be our presence, but our persistence. Credibility comes with demonstrable persistence.

That will be the big test for the RN and UK PLC. There may well be a developing syncronisity between a AU and UK posture of forward basing, based on the AU's recently passed 10 year trigger and the UK's need for a wider 'Global UK' profile, post BREXIT. This apparent convergence of interests may well be exploited by the 5 commonwealth powers (as well as other Fives). I keep hearing academics talking about a growing 'middle power consensus'...

Y
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Not sure how I feel about this. The Chinese are rivals but we should not make enemies of them. Leave the Americans to continue their great power games in the region with Japan and Australia and focus on Africa and the Middle East.

Its to provide reassurance to our friends in SE Asia who feel alone and unsure if America's eye in on their corner of the world. Brunei and Malaysia have terrority the Chinese are casting covetous eyes over.


420px-South_China_Sea_claims_map.jpg
 

Yarra

Old-Salt
Don't kid yourself, I suspect HM armed forces are up for another round of "efficiency" savings.
It's certainly money where your mouth is time.

The RN can barely field a CV Lite capability. The RAF sees itself as a 5 Gen capable force, but needs consistent investment to stay on point. That just leaves the Ugly Sister..... and capitation costs around large manpower pools are a tempting target. Imperial Constublary/Experimental Armoured Force anyone?
 
Hasn’t this been a long planned deployment nothing to do with recent Sabre rattling?

couldn't GAF if it offends them, we have Allies down their, we have customers, suppliers and a couple of ships made for this.

We should stick to the Atlantic and leave SE Asia to the yanks, oh wait, the Russians are getting uppity in the Atlantic, can’t the yanks help out??

Two countries down their have the Union flag on their National flag, helped us out in two world wars too.
 
The issue for our likely trading partners in the FE will not only be our presence, but our persistence. Credibility comes with demonstrable persistence.

That will be the big test for the RN and UK PLC. There may well be a developing syncronisity between a AU and UK posture of forward basing, based on the AU's recently passed 10 year trigger and the UK's need for a wider 'Global UK' profile, post BREXIT. This apparent convergence of interests may well be exploited by the 5 commonwealth powers (as well as other Fives). I keep hearing academics talking about a growing 'middle power consensus'...
According to the news article, the concept seems to be based around the UK providing the carrier and some of the planes, the Americans and Japanese providing additional planes, and Australia and Canada providing frigates and submarines. That's at least 4 other countries involved, many from a long ways away, and many of which will already have difficulty covering their own existing commitments.

It sounds like wishful thinking, unless the UK have got some sort of plan for a new close knit alliance up their sleeves. If so then that in itself is bigger news than carrier basing. I haven't heard of any leaks around that idea though.

What I can see as being realistic is for that sort of combination being put together on a regular basis as part of an exercise, as opposed to a permanent multi-national fleet. Regular multi-national exercises already take place in the Pacific, so it wouldn't be out of the question for the UK to participate in some with a naval task force being centred around the UK's carrier.

The major problem with the UK basing a carrier in the Pacific is that there will be regular demands for it in the rest of the world, and the UK don't have enough carriers to have one in every ocean. Something will kick off in the Middle East again (it always does), and the carrier will be needed there. Libya will boil over again, and it will be needed in the Mediterranean. Something will happen in the Caribbean or West Africa which requires a carrier's attention, and it will need to go there, etc., etc.
 
According to the news article, the concept seems to be based around the UK providing the carrier and some of the planes, the Americans and Japanese providing additional planes, and Australia and Canada providing frigates and submarines. That's at least 4 other countries involved, many from a long ways away, and many of which will already have difficulty covering their own existing commitments.

It sounds like wishful thinking, unless the UK have got some sort of plan for a new close knit alliance up their sleeves. If so then that in itself is bigger news than carrier basing. I haven't heard of any leaks around that idea though.

What I can see as being realistic is for that sort of combination being put together on a regular basis as part of an exercise, as opposed to a permanent multi-national fleet. Regular multi-national exercises already take place in the Pacific, so it wouldn't be out of the question for the UK to participate in some with a naval task force being centred around the UK's carrier.

The major problem with the UK basing a carrier in the Pacific is that there will be regular demands for it in the rest of the world, and the UK don't have enough carriers to have one in every ocean. Something will kick off in the Middle East again (it always does), and the carrier will be needed there. Libya will boil over again, and it will be needed in the Mediterranean. Something will happen in the Caribbean or West Africa which requires a carrier's attention, and it will need to go there, etc., etc.
It seems more plausible to me that one QEC could be spending a significant amount of time based between Duqm and Singapore, and slotting into the US cycle of Pacific CBG deployments, much the same as other RN platforms currently partake in Coalition tasking. There have been more than a couple of instances reasonably recently when the RN (and others) have been part of a USN-led CBG, the only difference would be that the carrier would have a White Ensign.
 

Yarra

Old-Salt
According to the news article, the concept seems to be based around the UK providing the carrier and some of the planes, the Americans and Japanese providing additional planes, and Australia and Canada providing frigates and submarines. That's at least 4 other countries involved, many from a long ways away, and many of which will already have difficulty covering their own existing commitments.

It sounds like wishful thinking, unless the UK have got some sort of plan for a new close knit alliance up their sleeves. If so then that in itself is bigger news than carrier basing. I haven't heard of any leaks around that idea though.

What I can see as being realistic is for that sort of combination being put together on a regular basis as part of an exercise, as opposed to a permanent multi-national fleet. Regular multi-national exercises already take place in the Pacific, so it wouldn't be out of the question for the UK to participate in some with a naval task force being centred around the UK's carrier.

The major problem with the UK basing a carrier in the Pacific is that there will be regular demands for it in the rest of the world, and the UK don't have enough carriers to have one in every ocean. Something will kick off in the Middle East again (it always does), and the carrier will be needed there. Libya will boil over again, and it will be needed in the Mediterranean. Something will happen in the Caribbean or West Africa which requires a carrier's attention, and it will need to go there, etc., etc.
I am not basing my observations on the news article.

There are some very credible individuals discussing the issue of persistent presence and the Logic behind that persistence, I have heard them explain, at first hand, both their argument and its supporting logic. I see this as something of a wicked problem, but post BREXIT I think that many within HMG are having to come to terms with the de-facto issue of trying to re-balance trade and security priorities in a rapidly changing World. Today's announcement on Hauwei is an important combat indicator of those rapidly changing priorities; this is the thin end of a big wedge of change. This is another; UK in the CPTPP

Who knows what HMG has up its sleeve. But as I said in my original post, I keep hearing academics talk about 'middle power consensus'.

Y
 

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