CVF and Carrier Strike thread

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
That should be on all internet links etc. As well as here.
Kirks won't mind.
I'm expecting him moaning at me for reposting Cat Shit 1. Though mine came with bonus footage
 
A nice gesture.


ENAMORED Americans have rolled out the red carpet to welcome the Royal Navy’s £3.1bn aircraft carrier to their shores by christening a day of state celebration in honour of the mighty warship, The News can exclusively reveal.​
The state-of-the-art supercarrier arrived in the States a few weeks ago to carry out the second phase of tests seeking to sharpen the warfighting teeth of Britain’s new F-35 stealth jet. And since arriving off the eastern coast of Florida, Queen Elizabeth – and her landmark mission – has become the talk of the town.​
Communities across the bustling metropolis of Jacksonville and beach resorts of Mayport have been obsessing over their new 65,000-tonne VIP, with curious visitors lining Florida’s sun-kissed shores to snap shots of the Portsmouth-based leviathan. And in an unprecedented show of affection for a British warship, civic chiefs from across the state handed over a plaque declaring October 11 the official ‘HMS Queen Elizabeth Day’...​
 

Yokel

LE
Some nuggets to post:

1. Another documentary by Chris Terrill coming up. I expect it will also be on BBC iPlayer.


2. F-35B fully loaded

Loaded on to this state-of-the-art jet from 17 (Test and Evaluation) is the weaponry it would typically carry on a strike mission: 22,000lb of destructive and defensive power.

In this case the ‘bombheads’ on HMS Queen Elizabeth – red-surcout-wearing air engineer technicians – carefully loaded inert Paveway laser-guided bombs and ASRAAM air-to-air missiles (for taking out aerial threats) on to the external pylons and bomb bay.

Fully-loaded, it’s known as “beast mode” by crews because of the firepower it delivers – nearly three times more than a Harrier, and as much as the heaviest payload carried by a WW2 Lancaster bomber (a Grand Slam or ‘earthquake’ bomb.


3. Junglies at the heart of the Carrier Strike Group

During Westlant, off the east coast of the United States, the Commando Merlin pilots and aircrew’s day to day work involves them flying stores around the Carrier Strike Group’s (CSG) warships and ashore, keeping everything ticking over on the mammoth operation.


In the old CVS days - how many sorties by the nine ASW Sea Kings onboard would be utility roles such as HDS or VERTREP? If freed of these tasks, does a squadron of six Merlin HM2 provide the same level of ASW coverage as nine Sea King HAS 5/6 - considering things like the increased range and endurance, and the much more capable radar and sonics? @Gerge211 ?

4. I found this Corbett Paper online - I cannot recall having seen it before:

The interoperability of future UK air power, afloat and ashore: a historical analysis

Points to note:

1. To make carrier aviation viable, the aircraft have to get used to embarking and the carrier has to be up to speed with having jets aboard.

2. V/STOL makes it possible for aircraft not solely dedicated to carry operations to embark.

3. Even a V/STOL aircraft needs to be designed or modified to operate from a ship.

4. Post Falklands, nobody thought of a Joint RN/RAF force until the nineties.

5. The Invincible class carriers were busy in the Adriatic in the early nineties, and later in the late nities and beyond in the Gulf - and RAF Harriers joining the Sea Harriers.

6. The loss of Sea Harrier meant having jets embarked less often, meaning the carriers' personnel lost skills.

7. In 1982 the RAF Harrier GR3 had been able to embark aboard Hermes as she was used to having Sea Harrier aboard and fully up to speed with supporting fixed wing aircraft.

8. Points 1 to 7 were ignored by Cameron prior to SDSR 10...
 
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unicorn77

War Hero
22,000lb of ordnance puts things in perspective.
I thought that too. I had a look at wiki to check how that stacks up to a WW2 Lancaster and it very much exceeds the total they carried in any attack shape. Just comparing the raw tonnage that is, not the effectiveness of the ordnance.
 
...Points 1 to 7 were ignored by Cameron prior to SDSR 10...
However unpalatable it was at the time, either the GR9 or GR4 fleet had to go. I would argue that history has proved the correct call was made.

Regards,
MM
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I thought that too. I had a look at wiki to check how that stacks up to a WW2 Lancaster and it very much exceeds the total they carried in any attack shape. Just comparing the raw tonnage that is, not the effectiveness of the ordnance.
And compare that to the fact that that is 22,000lb of smart ordnance.

Few people realise that the 1,000 bomber raids were a product of what was deemed to be necessary to destroy, for instance, a single railhead.

Now, one aircraft, one bomb.

Different world.
 

Penfold

Swinger
I thought that the initial 1000 bomber raid was a Bomber Harris PR special that was as much driven by the need to be seen doing something, inter force resource arguments & the bomb capacity of the aircraft then available.
 
I thought that the initial 1000 bomber raid was a Bomber Harris PR special that was as much driven by the need to be seen doing something, inter force resource arguments & the bomb capacity of the aircraft then available.
Certainly part of the propaganda war and the most visible way of hitting back on regular basis.
 
22,000lb of ordnance puts things in perspective.
I’m not sure the B model can carry that payload and would certainly not do so on a routine basis.

However, it does illustrate that the F-35 has potential as a bomb truck to those ARRSE members who’ve incorrectly suggested the payload of Typhoon and Lightning is lower than Russian FLANKERS amongst others!

Regards,
MM
 

Yokel

LE
However unpalatable it was at the time, either the GR9 or GR4 fleet had to go. I would argue that history has proved the correct call was made.

Regards,
MM
Even I reluctantly accept that - however the STOVL - CV - STOVL debacle did us no favours, and complicated the post SDSR task of trying to mitigate against skills loss - in particular having jets embarked. This is one of the things I highlighted from that article - the embarkation of 1 Sqn with Harrier GR3 aboard HMS Hermes in 1982 and the embarkation of Harrier GR7 in the nineties was only possible as the carrier was fully swept up with having fixed wing aircraft embarked.

F-35B was the correct choice, perhaps the only choice given the way the UK intends to operate a joint force and one that is not solely carrier based. It also means no need for catapults or arresting gear, and the manpower needed for them.

It would be interesting to see a documentary covering all the measures taken to maintain and recover skills, but think it very unlikely - not everything is public. Sometimes there were hints, sometimes one heard rumours and made logical deductions...

I think the PTT types share some of the blame. Theoretical best is often the enemy of good enough AND feasible.
 
How f*cking brilliant was that!!!

Flag Fox and the first Grey Funnel F35 landing. Just finished watching.

Makes one proud, makes one forget the grey miserable crap that the politicians of this country have subjected us to for the last couple of years.

The Bootie band of course always makes one feel good, but it was a great end to a lovely day.

We have a carrier, soon two, it may be a smaller Navy but its the Royal Navy.
 
I was a tad disappointed by the programme tbh which repeated the previous focus on the chef (although he does seem a real character!) and onion/potato/toilet roll stocks etc. Meanwhile, Cdr Gray's comments that the QEC can '...do any mission anywhere, independently...' were disappointingly Wardesque like.

I get the need to counter the negative narratives, but realism is equally important.

Regards,
MM
 

Yokel

LE
I was a tad disappointed by the programme tbh which repeated the previous focus on the chef (although he does seem a real character!) and onion/potato/toilet roll stocks etc. Meanwhile, Cdr Gray's comments that the QEC can '...do any mission anywhere, independently...' were disappointingly Wardesque like.

I get the need to counter the negative narratives, but realism is equally important.

Regards,
MM
Well at least Caroline Catz stated that the Merlin HM2 is for hunting submarines and that the Merlin HM4 is for inserting Bootnecks (and SAR). It was interesting to learn that Cdr Gray had been the student pilot when the Harrier trainer went in at Wittering in 2002 and Lt Cdr Jack London was killed - they showed pictures of his Sea Harrier was the shattered canopy.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I was a tad disappointed by the programme tbh which repeated the previous focus on the chef (although he does seem a real character!) and onion/potato/toilet roll stocks etc. Meanwhile, Cdr Gray's comments that the QEC can '...do any mission anywhere, independently...' were disappointingly Wardesque like.

I get the need to counter the negative narratives, but realism is equally important.

Regards,
MM
It seems to be the way of modern documentaries - focusing on the twee and the minutiae.

A former colleague of mine competes in gliding at a very senior level. He rang me one day to say that BBC2 had done a documentary.

The team had turned up at various airfields and been taught about what was involved (the intricacies of un-powered flight, how the competition was formed, etc.).

The end result, instead, was a tedious human interest angle focused on one man and his son who really, really hated his father's hobby. I came away no wiser about the competition.

Oh, and don't forget the seemingly essential 'Five go mad in Dorset' soundtrack...
 
Well at least Caroline Catz stated that the Merlin HM2 is for hunting submarines and that the Merlin HM4 is for inserting Bootnecks (and SAR)...
Although, at a wider level, the silence on Crowsnest is deafening.

Regards,
MM
 

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