CVF and Carrier Strike thread

Most fleets have a hangar queen.

However, @History_Man man was probably referring to the HC variants rather than the ASW HMs. Either way, the Merlin is the only true ASW helo we have.

Regards,
MM
Only the Merlin HM2 can dip (which in a task group complements towed array sonar very well - the two things go together) but the Wildcat HMA can drop torpedoes - guided by the parent ship, Merlins, or MPA, just as the Lynx and before that the Wasp did.

Sting ray away... | Royal Navy

In various forms, Sting Ray has been in service with the Royal Navy for more than 30 years. It’s carried by frigates (thrust out of launchers by a high-pressure air) and Fleet Air Arm Merlin’s who carry four, with Lynx helicopters armed with two. The Royal Navy’s submarines kill their underwater prey with the much heavier Spearfish torpedo.

The Lynx’s successor Wildcat is beginning to enter front-line service – the first is currently on deployment with HMS Lancaster in the Atlantic – and although it’s undergone extensive trials and testing over the past five years, until now it’s not dropped a torpedo.

That was put right on the range off the Lizard Peninsula – brought back into use by Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose for torpedo tests only last year after a 15-year pause.


Wildcat crews earn their Wings with 'war' off Portugal

The pairs of students launch with just 15 minutes' notice into rapidly-changing tactical environments - whilst the pilots are flashing up the Wildcat's two LH Tech T800 engines, the observers are rapidly plotting the tactical picture and configuring the aircraft's extensive sensor suite - including the Sea Spray 7400E Radar and Electro Optical Designator System (a very powerful day and night camera).

Once ready, the lashings are removed and the aircraft leaps into the air.

On a typical sortie - operating 100 nautical miles (115 miles) from mother, with a radar horizon of a further 100 nautical miles - student crews will search more than 8,000 square miles of sea… which is the size of Wales… for contacts as small as a fishing smack.

Once the target has been found, the students decide if they will engage it themselves with a simulated Sea Venom attack (the Wildcat's air-to-surface missile, successor to Sea Skua, but not due in service until the beginning of the next decade) or relay the position back to a friendly frigate or destroyer for an over-the-horizon attack with Harpoon missiles.

The students have been trained in submarine hunting and had to be prepared to conduct simulated Stingray torpedo attacks or to call in Naval Gunfire Support for land targets.

In fact, on any given sortie, students may be asked to conduct anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, search and rescue, naval gunfire support, smuggling interdiction involving firing the M3M gun, load lifting, providing force protection, intelligence gathering, transporting troops/personnel, and much more (though not necessarily on the same flight…).


I think have Junglies normally embarked aboard the carriers will free the ASW cabs from standing SAR alert and many of the utility tasks.

I seem to remember that there is a description of task group ASW in Sharkey Ward's book.
 
Only the Merlin HM2 can dip (which in a task group complements towed array sonar very well - the two things go together) but the Wildcat HMA can drop torpedoes - guided by the parent ship, Merlins, or MPA, just as the Lynx and before that the Wasp did.

Sting ray away... | Royal Navy

In various forms, Sting Ray has been in service with the Royal Navy for more than 30 years. It’s carried by frigates (thrust out of launchers by a high-pressure air) and Fleet Air Arm Merlin’s who carry four, with Lynx helicopters armed with two. The Royal Navy’s submarines kill their underwater prey with the much heavier Spearfish torpedo.

The Lynx’s successor Wildcat is beginning to enter front-line service – the first is currently on deployment with HMS Lancaster in the Atlantic – and although it’s undergone extensive trials and testing over the past five years, until now it’s not dropped a torpedo.

That was put right on the range off the Lizard Peninsula – brought back into use by Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose for torpedo tests only last year after a 15-year pause.

Wildcat crews earn their Wings with 'war' off Portugal

The pairs of students launch with just 15 minutes' notice into rapidly-changing tactical environments - whilst the pilots are flashing up the Wildcat's two LH Tech T800 engines, the observers are rapidly plotting the tactical picture and configuring the aircraft's extensive sensor suite - including the Sea Spray 7400E Radar and Electro Optical Designator System (a very powerful day and night camera).

Once ready, the lashings are removed and the aircraft leaps into the air.

On a typical sortie - operating 100 nautical miles (115 miles) from mother, with a radar horizon of a further 100 nautical miles - student crews will search more than 8,000 square miles of sea… which is the size of Wales… for contacts as small as a fishing smack.

Once the target has been found, the students decide if they will engage it themselves with a simulated Sea Venom attack (the Wildcat's air-to-surface missile, successor to Sea Skua, but not due in service until the beginning of the next decade) or relay the position back to a friendly frigate or destroyer for an over-the-horizon attack with Harpoon missiles.

The students have been trained in submarine hunting and had to be prepared to conduct simulated Stingray torpedo attacks or to call in Naval Gunfire Support for land targets.

In fact, on any given sortie, students may be asked to conduct anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, search and rescue, naval gunfire support, smuggling interdiction involving firing the M3M gun, load lifting, providing force protection, intelligence gathering, transporting troops/personnel, and much more (though not necessarily on the same flight…).

I think have Junglies normally embarked aboard the carriers will free the ASW cabs from standing SAR alert and many of the utility tasks.

I seem to remember that there is a description of task group ASW in Sharkey Ward's book.
Sharkey alert, sharkey alert. Beware incoming Harriers.
 
Only the Merlin HM2 can dip (which in a task group complements towed array sonar very well - the two things go together) but the Wildcat HMA can drop torpedoes - guided by the parent ship, Merlins, or MPA, just as the Lynx and before that the Wasp did...
Only the Merlin can dip and drop sonobuoys; that's why I described Merlin HM as our only true ASW cab.

...I seem to remember that there is a description of task group ASW in Sharkey Ward's book.
I also recall however however that Mr Ward also claimed in his book that Nimrod MR2 crews had made up their accounts of maritime missions down (and often within sight of the) the Argentine mainland!

Regards,
MM
 
I hate to be a killjoy but there is a thread in this very forum for unmanned and remotely controlled systems.

Autonomous and Remotely Controlled Systems

In an attempt to steer the conversation back towards shipborne aviation...

In the late fifties the US Navy decided to procure a remotely controlled helicopter for torpedo delivery - DASH. The Royal Navy opted for a manned helicopter for frigate and destroyer operation - the Wasp. Like DASH it could deliver torpedoes or depth charge as directed by the mother ship, and WE177A (God forbid).

However being manned it could also talk to other helicopters such as the ASW Sea King (with dipping sonar) and Nimrod. The ASW role is covered in the first part of this seventies Navy recruitment film:


Sea King and dipping sonar mentioned at approx 5.00!

Of course, the Wasp also did utility roles and things like CASEVAC and SAR, and was later fitted with the AS12 missile to counter the missile boat threat. This was the first missile to be fired in anger by the RN (HMS Endurance's Wasp versus the ARA Santa Fe in April 1982) and had been the result of testing anti tank missile against waterborne targets. It was the predecessor of the Lynx using Sea Skua, the US Navy arming helicopters with Hellfire, and our own Wildcat getting Martlet and Sea Venom.

The US Navy was happy to replace DASH with the manned LAMPS Sea Sprite and Seahawk helicopters. Far more capable and flexible.

Right at the end of the film, the Captain mentions future ships (this was in 1975) and the 'Anti Submarine Cruiser' HMS Invincible gets a mention at 22: 20.

Did the CVS and Sea Harrier save the Navy?
8.40 in, Rob Davies OOW. Went on to be skipper of the Newcastle. Proper gent and absolutely worshipped by the ships company. Fantastic war canoe driver
 
Only the Merlin can dip and drop sonobuoys; that's why I described Merlin HM as our only true ASW cab.



I also recall however however that Mr Ward also claimed in his book that Nimrod MR2 crews had made up their accounts of maritime missions down (and often within sight of the) the Argentine mainland!

Regards,
MM
Did he? I must let my friend know that, as he seems to have suffered a mental aberration in the Spring of 1982!!
 
Did he? I must let my friend know that, as he seems to have suffered a mental aberration in the Spring of 1982!!
I'll try and dig out a reference amongst the many Crab-bashing claims in his book.

Clearly, the Crustacean subterfuge extends to falsification of dozens of log-books, F540s, Air Historic Branch material, and National Archives documentation!!!

I can only imagine his outrage should an MR2 mate have questioned elements of SHAR ops in the War!

Regards,
MM
 
Only the Merlin can dip and drop sonobuoys; that's why I described Merlin HM as our only true ASW cab.



I also recall however however that Mr Ward also claimed in his book that Nimrod MR2 crews had made up their accounts of maritime missions down (and often within sight of the) the Argentine mainland!

Regards,
MM
Pistols or swords, at dawn?
Maybe @Yokel would prefer a cutlass?
 
Pistols or swords, at dawn?
Maybe @Yokel would prefer a cutlass?
Whatever my views of Mr Ward, life's been pretty cruel to him lately due to the loss of a son so I'll cut him some slack.

Regards,
MM
 
Talking of sonobuoys...



(Sorry, I couldn't find any images of an RN Merlin dropping (as opposed to dipping) a sonobuoy).

Regards,
MM
 
I also recall however however that Mr Ward also claimed in his book that Nimrod MR2 crews had made up their accounts of maritime missions down (and often within sight of the) the Argentine mainland!

Regards,
MM
As CO of 801 NAS, would have have been privy to the details of all Nimrod missions?

Also - most people involved directly would only really see their bit of operations. I have seen some blinkered writing and commentary over the years.

Anyway, in Sea Harrier Over The Falklands he does describe the principles of task group AAW and ASW including carrier aircraft. Similarly, Sandy Woodward's One Hundred Days proves the case for carriers and naval fighters.

However, long range task group operations, and using carrier based fighters as a task group weapon, had not been practised in the years leading up to the South Atlantic conflict.

I have the paperback version of Sea Harrier Over The Falklands which I bought in 1996. He discuss defence in depth on pages 145 to 147 - initially defence against the air threat, but then the submarine threat, including the role of ASW helicopters, towed array sonars, and hull mounted sonars.
 
I have the paperback version of Sea Harrier Over The Falklands which I bought in 1996. He discussES defence in depth on pages 145 to 147 - initially defence against the air threat, but then the submarine threat, including the role of ASW helicopters, towed array sonars, and hull mounted sonars.
Seriously? 3 pages?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Just checked the Sonobouys figures, P8 carries less than a third of what Nimrod could
Not sure where you got that from; the P-8 can carry up to 120 buoys, the Nimrod MRA4 was planned to have carried up to 150 but the capability was never even demonstrated. Not sure how many the MR2 carried but it wasn’t 360!

Regards,
MM
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Not sure where you got that from; the P-8 can carry up to 120 buoys, the Nimrod MRA4 was planned to have carried up to 150 but the capability was never even demonstrated. Not sure how many the MR2 carried but it wasn’t 360!

Regards,
MM
My mistake. I referenced off an older article than claimed P8 only carried 48
 

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