CVF and Carrier Strike thread

Wonder if we’re already planning a photo of Europe’s largest CV, deck full of F35s with Europe’s second largest carrier looking just that but smaller...
Hopefully a number of Merlins too!

HMS Queen Elizabeth, like the CVS back in the day, will be a platform for sufficient ASW helicopters to provide 24/7 dipping at range, providing long range task group ASW (in conjunction with 2087 equipped frigates). Serious about task group ASW? Then you need a carrier (or similar).
 
It seems some people never miss an opportunity to throw any sort of carrier related mud - such as the lack of COD. No COD = no ability to have spare engines delivered = no flying? One wonders what we did during the CVS/Sea Harrier/Harrier years?

Interestingly, this prompted this reply from Engines, a former AEO Commander.

There was no requirement for all of the F-35 support equipment, spares, etc. to be transportable by COD, or V-22 for that matter. There was a requirement for the F135 engine to be capable of being moved from ship to ship by wire RAS in its container. Incidentally, the F135 is Government Furnished Equipment (GFE), so responsibility for sorting out how it gets on a ship lies with the US DoD and in the case of the RN, the MoD. LM's main task was was working out how to change an F135 while the ship was moving about - and that was quite a challenge.

The USMC already, some time back, demonstrated a concept for moving the power module of the F135 (the core of the engine) around in a V-22, using a specially developed 'sled' to reduce overall size. The complete F135 is a very large piece of kit, and is normally (as far as I know) moved around in its sections (or 'modules'). The UK operated for some years with Sea Harriers and their Pegasus engines, which could only be brought on board by crane alongside, or possibly by (very) short range vertical replenishment as an underslung load. (We once moved a Peggie from the ship to ashore in Bermuda using a Sea King).

So, my take would be that spare engine modules (or even complete engines) would normally be brought on board ship by crane whilst alongside, before the ship sailed, or at designated ports during deployment - just like any other large items of stores required during a deployment. Modules would be assembled into complete engines on board in the designated bay near the hangar. Next step along would be via ship to ship RAS, and if that failed, perhaps using a friendly local USMC V-22. Or perhaps they could embark a Chinook for those occasional 'big lift' jobs - the RAF have plenty of them, and the ship has a bit of space.
 
I can’t help but feel that a couple pf spare engines to just keep on board would be a lot cheaper than a whole COD capability.
 
I can’t help but feel that a couple pf spare engines to just keep on board would be a lot cheaper than a whole COD capability.
Or just fly another whole plane out if you are one plane down, have used up all your spares, and really, really, can't do without for a few days. We are really talking about niche capabilities in that case then.

In the case of the US they are looking at managing spare parts for world-wide delivery from multiple warehouses also located world-wide. They may have the engines in stock, but the demand may be in the Indian Ocean while the engines are sitting in a warehouse in Japan. That means they need to get them from anywhere to anywhere quickly unless they want to hold excessively large stocks in many places.

The UK on the other hand will have at most one carrier on ops at any one time, and so can plan for delivering spare parts to that one ship in that one theatre. Also to be delivered will be fuel, food, weapons, and other stuff which won't go by air. I suspect that engines can be delivered in a timely fashion through the same channels.
 
If only we had an organisation that among its main aims is the task of driving ships around to follow the carriers where ever they go while carrying lots of spares, engines and things that go whoosh bang! Maybe we could even look at building some new ones that will carry more stuff and have RAS Rigs that are designed to transfer 6 tonnes....

If only we had such a mystical organisation... If we did I bet the Engineers would be handsome gods among men...
 
If only we had an organisation that among its main aims is the task of driving ships around to follow the carriers where ever they go while carrying lots of spares, engines and things that go whoosh bang! Maybe we could even look at building some new ones that will carry more stuff and have RAS Rigs that are designed to transfer 6 tonnes....

If only we had such a mystical organisation... If we did I bet the Engineers would be handsome gods among men...
Why do you need a heavy at sea replenishment rig to move an engine that weighs less than two tons, or Storm-shadows that cannot be used by F35s. Yes 125 tons per hour of dry goods is a fantastic capability, and a feather in the RN/RFA cap.but the engine/storm-shadow was just a BS selling point that appears to have worked.
 
Why do you need a heavy at sea replenishment rig to move an engine that weighs less than two tons, or Storm-shadows that cannot be used by F35s. Yes 125 tons per hour of dry goods is a fantastic capability, and a feather in the RN/RFA cap.but the engine/storm-shadow was just a BS selling point that appears to have worked.
Im sorry @cookie65 I cant find anything in the link you posted above that gives the weight of the F135. Let alone the weight of the F135 in its transport container and lifting gear. And i think you are missing a few other very important considerations why they might want to throw as much in the way of stores across in as little time as possible.
 
Im sorry @cookie65 I cant find anything in the link you posted above that gives the weight of the F135. Let alone the weight of the F135 in its transport container and lifting gear. And i think you are missing a few other very important considerations why they might want to throw as much in the way of stores across in as little time as possible.
General characteristics

Type: afterburning turbofan
Length: 220 in (559 cm)
Diameter: 46 in (117 cm) max., 43 in (109 cm) at the fan inlet
Dry weight: 3,750 lb (1,701 kg)

No i am not missing the importance of moving loads of supplies in the shortest time possible, merely pointing out RASing engines is not the only way of getting them onto the carriers.
 
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Do the Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft aboard US Carriers just support the air group, or do they carrier spares for the ship as well? What about other ships in the carrier group? Genuine question.
 
Do the Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft aboard US Carriers just support the air group, or do they carrier spares for the ship as well? What about other ships in the carrier group? Genuine question.

The old COD Gannets spent most of their time moving people
 
I'm slightly confused. We have an aircraft carrier designed to operate globally in a hostile environment. That's what power projection is about. When one of them is 200 miles off a hostile coast where are these COD aircraft supposed to be bringing an engine from?
 
I'm slightly confused. We have an aircraft carrier designed to operate globally in a hostile environment. That's what power projection is about. When one of them is 200 miles off a hostile coast where are these COD aircraft supposed to be bringing an engine from?
Same place as other spares do: a friendly nation.

Regards,
MM
 
I'm slightly confused. We have an aircraft carrier designed to operate globally in a hostile environment. That's what power projection is about. When one of them is 200 miles off a hostile coast where are these COD aircraft supposed to be bringing an engine from?
Wiki int gives COD a range of 1300nm so a wide variety of places.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Do the Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft aboard US Carriers just support the air group, or do they carrier spares for the ship as well? What about other ships in the carrier group? Genuine question.
Yes, they bring stores back to the CVN for onwards movement, usually by CH-46. I suspect in the not too distant future that will be done, intra Task Group, by autonomous rotary assets.
 
Yes, they bring stores back to the CVN for onwards movement, usually by CH-46. I suspect in the not too distant future that will be done, intra Task Group, by autonomous rotary assets.
I dont myself
I can perhaps see it happening elsewhere - but space is finite on a ship, To me it makes far more sense to borrow an aircraft with another job as required - rather than taking up the slot with a single use aircraft - whose job could be fulfilled by pretty much everything else in a secondary role.
 

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