CVF and Carrier Strike thread

Still. It would all have been better if there had been MV22 and a proper organic Royal Navy led CSAR capability...

(Sorry.)
Simples!

If I remember the rescue was a led by the USMC from an amphibious ship, including both Cobras and AV-8B for escort. Yet during the Bosnian unpleasantness, Channel Four had made a programme (Equinox) about life aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt. This documentary included speaking to the embarked Marines who were there to recover splashed aircrew....

Most likely he got a better book deal than "them"
On YouTube I remember seeing an ex SAS guy recounting the recapture of South Georgia in 1982, castigating the Navy for sinking the submarine ARA Sante Fe and supposedly alerting the Argentines. Now I am only a simple part time sailor but:

1. The Argentines must have known ships were detached from the main task group for Operation Paraquat.
2. Seeing an enemy submarine on the surface, in time of a shooting war, and doing nothing, would be really really stupid.
3. He forgets to mention the way local advice regarding weather was ignored. Why did a whole SAS squadron need rescuing from a Glacier in blizzard conditions?

 
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...If I remember the rescue was a led by the USMC from an amphibious ship, including both Cobras and AV-8B for escort...
Mmm, I think it's fair to say that there was a tad of US inter-service rivalry involved. The USMC TRAP launch came as much of a surprise to the CAOC as everyone else, not least as a CSAR package was already in the process of being launched from elsewhere!

Regards,
MM
 
Mmm, I think it's fair to say that there was a tad of US inter-service rivalry involved. The USMC TRAP launch came as much of a surprise to the CAOC as everyone else, not least as a CSAR package was already in the process of being launched from elsewhere!

Regards,
MM
The USMC ensuring that they are doing something entirely different to everyone else?

Say it aint so.
 
The USMC ensuring that they are doing something entirely different to everyone else?

Say it aint so.
In fairness, I think they felt they had top cover from a Admiral Leighton Smith who at the time was COMSOUTH. It's just unfortunate that Smith decided to talk VFR direct with a mate on the USS Kearsage rather than bothering with trivial issues like coordinating it with the JPR Cell in the CAOC or anyone else in NATO for that matter!

Regards,
MM
 
In fairness, I think they felt they had top cover from a Admiral Leighton Smith who at the time was COMSOUTH. It's just unfortunate that Smith decided to talk VFR direct with a mate on the USS Kearsage rather than bothering with trivial issues like coordinating it with the JPR Cell in the CAOC or anyone else in NATO for that matter!

Regards,
MM
always with the process.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Done. Using next week with some Turks and Italians. I might have to edit it for the Spaniards. The big picture does show quite a lot of Gibraltar
While you are at it, why not photoshop the Rock so that it is wearing a Union flag?
 
Done. Using next week with some Turks and Italians. I might have to edit it for the Spaniards. The big picture does show quite a lot of Gibraltar
Turkey is after some sort of LPH/carrier - perhaps you can drum up some trade for MacTag, AGI Ltd, et al?
 
In fairness, I think they felt they had top cover from a Admiral Leighton Smith who at the time was COMSOUTH. It's just unfortunate that Smith decided to talk VFR direct with a mate on the USS Kearsage rather than bothering with trivial issues like coordinating it with the JPR Cell in the CAOC or anyone else in NATO for that matter!

Regards,
MM
Described to me a couple of ACSCs after yours as 'at risk of turning into a real life version of Hot Shots! with us needing to put together a JPR team to rescue the JPR team who'd been sent in to rescue the JPR team . And with Hillary Clinton as the only candidate to play Topper Harley'.

[Part Deux of Hot Shots!, obviously]
 
Got enough trouble flogging them my stuff without working on someone else's behalf. If you can negotiate me some commission though...
A carrier and escorting frigate in the Mediterranean probably helps... I hope they help project a positive impression of British engineering beyond the defence sector.
 
A nice afternoon up the rock. Even managed to catch up with northern_matelot ashore!


He needs to shave off his gash beard aswell!
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
Described to me a couple of ACSCs after yours as 'at risk of turning into a real life version of Hot Shots! with us needing to put together a JPR team to rescue the JPR team who'd been sent in to rescue the JPR team . And with Hillary Clinton as the only candidate to play Topper Harley'.

[Part Deux of Hot Shots!, obviously]
I am sure I saw a documentary about the rescue - I think it was partly made by the BBC 999 team. As I remember, the Bosnian Serbs started to try to engage with SAMs.... If only someone had asked along some EA-6Bs from the US Carrier...

@ECMO1
 
I am sure I saw a documentary about the rescue - I think it was partly made by the BBC 999 team. As I remember, the Bosnian Serbs started to try to engage with SAMs.... If only someone had asked along some EA-6Bs from the US Carrier...

@ECMO1
The majority of Op DENY FLIGHT Electronic Attack (EA) support was provided by USMC EA-6Bs and USAF EF-111s based at Aviano in Northern Italy (where they operated from a dispersal right next to our E-3D ‘Mole Hole’ ops bunker near the old main gate). These USAF and USMC jets were augmented by EC-130Hs during periods of major activity such as DELIBERATE FORCE and ALLIED FORCE (OAF).

When O’Grady was downed on 2 Jun 94, additional assets were tasked to support efforts to confirm his status and location. My log book shows I flew several night sorties during the subsequent week and I recall we were tasked with attempting to contact ‘BASHER 52’ on Guard and other freqs at specified times. We had his Isolated Personnel Report (ISOPREP) which would have allowed us to verify his identity had he made contact. Sadly, other than a few garbled responses, nothing positive was heard by anyone although we knew he was alive and probably evading.

Meanwhile, USAF CSAR assets (MH-53Js and HC-130s iirc) were forward deployed and appropriate SEAD and RESCORT assets were brought up to a higher state of readiness. These were a combination of USAF EF-111s, F-16CGs, A-10s and USMC FA-18Ds based at Aviano. Other support would’ve been diverted from normal ODF activity.

When contact was finally gained (ironically by one of O’Grady’s Sqn mates) on the night of 8 Jun 94, it took a little while longer to refine his location. The CSAR package was briefed and about to launch while ODF assets were cleared out of the immediate vicinity and held over the Adriatic to provide coverage during ingress over Croatia and B-H. That also provided a clear field of fire for the RESCAP in case Serb jets launched from Udbina, Banja Luka or rump Serbia.

Then AWACS detected a bunch of unidentified assets over the Adriatic inbound to the AOR. Although they were obviously friendly, it took sometime for the NATO E-3A crew to establish comms, authenticate and identify them as a USMC TRAP formation. The fact the USMC guys had launched using a US only commplan and non-standard SATCOM channels added to the confusion. The CAOC were similarly confused initially as they thought the E-3A guys were mis-reporting the USAF CSAR package!

Meanwhile, EA and RESCORT assets were poorly placed to support the USMC Helos and didn’t even know which CSAR package was primary! Therefore, they had to play catch up without being briefed on the TRAP routing, call signs, freqs and other mission critical data! Eventually, other assets were diverted to support the USMC package. However, it was all poorly coordinated, gained little in time and added greatly to the risk for the TRAP team and O’Grady himself.

CSAR Special Instructions (SPINS) and procedures were changed radically afterwards! However, ‘Black ATO’ issues during OAF also caused significant issues during the F-117 CSAR 5 years later.

As has been said elsewhere, helicopters are just part of the assets and factors which enable a JPR operation.

Regards,
MM
 
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The majority of Op DENY FLIGHT Electronic Attack (EA) support was provided by USMC EA-6Bs and USAF EF-111s based at Aviano in Northern Italy (where they operated from a dispersal right next to our E-3D ‘Mole Hole’ ops bunker near the old main gate). These USAF and USMC jets were augmented by EC-130Hs during periods of major activity such as DELIBERATE FORCE and ALLIED FORCE (OAF).

When O’Grady was downed on 2 Jun 94, additional assets were tasked to support efforts to confirm his status and location. My log book shows I flew several night sorties during the subsequent week and I recall we were tasked with attempting to contact ‘BASHER 52’ on Guard and other freqs at specified times. We had his Isolated Personnel Report (ISOPREP) which would have allowed us to verify his identity had he made contact. Sadly, other than a few garbled responses, nothing positive was heard by anyone although we knew he was alive and probably evading.

Meanwhile, USAF CSAR assets (MH-53Js and HC-130s iirc) were forward deployed and appropriate SEAD and RESCORT assets were brought up to a higher state of readiness. These were a combination of USAF EF-111s, F-16CGs, A-10s and USMC FA-18Ds based at Aviano. Other support would’ve been diverted from normal ODF activity.

When contact was finally gained (ironically by one of O’Grady’s Sqn mates) on the night of 8 Jun 94, it took a little while longer to refine his location. The CSAR package was briefed and about to launch while ODF assets were cleared out of the immediate vicinity and held over the Adriatic to provide coverage during ingress over Croatia and B-H.

Then AWACS detected a bunch of unidentified assets inbound to the AOR. Although they were obviously friendly, it took sometime for the NATO E-3A crew to establish comms, authenticate and identify them as a USMC TRAP formation. The fact the USMC guys had launched using a US only commplan and non-standard SATCOM channels added to the confusion. The CAOC were similarly confused initially as they thought the E-3A guys were mis-reporting the USAF CSAR package!

Meanwhile, EA and RESCORT assets was poorly placed to support the USMC Helos and didn’t even know which CSAR package was primary! Therefore, they had to play catch up without being briefed on the TRAP routing, call signs, freqs and other mission critical data! Eventually, other assets were diverted to support the USMC package. However, it was all poorly coordinated, gained little in time and added greatly to the risk for the TRAP team and O’Grady.

CSAR Special Instructions (SPINS) and procedures were changed radically afterwards! However, the ‘Black ATO’ issues during OAF also caused significant issues during the F-117 CSAR 5 years later.

Regards,
MM
Is/was it influenced by the experience of Vietnam - when the Combat SAR and Recovery arrangements had been rather ad hoc, at least in the early days?
 
Is/was it influenced by the experience of Vietnam - when the Combat SAR and Recovery arrangements had been rather ad hoc, at least in the early days?
I suspect it had more to do with the USN wanting to get one over on the USAF tbh!

In fairness, the NATO AFSOUTH C2 architecture was screwed up, ambiguous and any engagement technically had to be authorised by Boutros Boutros Gali himself other than in self defence. Smith may therefore have wanted - or was directed - to keep the CAOC out of it.

Regards,
MM
 
My late Uncle described the UN as "a guard dig without teeth" - the UN very very limp wristed for years, and the Bosnian Serbs literally got away with mass murder.
 
On a changing note, and going back to a point someone made earlier, does anyone know the story of HMS Ark Royal having a Swordfish on her deck in 1986?



Did it land on? Did it take off again? Would a similar thing be possible today post Heddon Cave? Given the importance of the rare Swordfish I kid of think it best not.

If you really wanted to design an aircraft for STOL unaided launch/recovery - would the technologies developed for F-35B help?
 

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