CVF and Carrier Strike thread

[meerkatz]

That is why I thought that having your own pocket ASW that could sweep further ahead of the battle group and further down the flanks was better than relying on ASW helos alone. So I thought that Viking was a nice to have.

Although my naval warfare expertise extends to a few games of battleships in the 80s, a few Harpoon games in the 90s and a few games of battleshots planned for the next few months.

Dedicated ASW assets?
The LCS will dash ahead of the TG at 50kts and then stream the TA and defeat the lurking denizens of the deep!

Yes, that's the sound of a hundred sundodgers laughing their heads off.

 

[Simpering Civvie]

Sort of, maybe, but by no means not definitely. Depends on the submarine and its kit, the aircraft, and how they're hunting it.

In fact, sometimes the game is to let the submarine know there's somebody up there hunting it and that even raising a mast risks detection. Other times you'd rather the first warning they got of unfriendly company is a splash, a few seconds of gurgling noises, a sharp 'crack' and then a motor and rotors spinning up followed by sonar transmissions with a big up-Doppler, increasing volume and increasing pulse repetition rate...




It's called 'sonar'.

Have I just been wah'd?

No wah, as my question was about detecting a following plane, not boat. That's why I said radar and not sonar.

 

[Lindermyer]

Please tell me this is a wind up and our education system has not really dropped to this level

 

[Simpering Civvie]

@Lindermyer, it was an open question on how it could be done. Radio waves can and do pass the air/water boundary (albeit refracted and distorted), while sound waves can't.

The question was basically one of if the sub can know if it's being followed by a plane, the use of "radar" was just for illustrative purposes.

Lastly, I may be ill informed but I'm not stupid! Also had an excellent and broad education.

 

[Lindermyer]

Consider the very low end compared to the upper end of the frequency spectrum

Consider Weather Radar

 

[Simpering Civvie]

Isn't weather radar quite high frequency? And it's air-reflect off water droplets-receive in air.

What I was thinking of (and I'm not sure it even exists) would be water based broadcaster-> pass the water/air boundary-> strike aluminium object in air-> reflect back-> pass air/water boundary-> hit water based receiver.

I've been told already that if such a system exists, it's not for public consumption.

 

[meerkatz]

@Lindermyer, it was an open question on how it could be done. Radio waves can and do pass the air/water boundary (albeit refracted and distorted), while sound waves can't.

The question was basically one of if the sub can know if it's being followed by a plane, the use of "radar" was just for illustrative purposes.

Lastly, I may be ill informed but I'm not stupid! Also had an excellent and broad education.

Sound does cross the air water boundary

 

[Lindermyer]

Radar doesn't work by reflection or by bouncing off things.

 

[Lindermyer]

Sound does cross the air water boundary

One assumes he has never dived in a public swimming pool

 

[meerkatz]

One assumes he has never dived in a public swimming pool

I suspect he has, but struck his head hard on the bottom

 

[Simpering Civvie]

Radar doesn't work by reflection or by bouncing off things.

Everything I know about it must have been wrong then....

 

[meerkatz]

So use your sonar to listen for the sound of active sonobuoys or their splash?.
Use your sonar to listen for the sound of the MPAs engine?
Use your look stick to look for any sign of a patrolling MPA?

No, go active on a radar and tell any MPA within a few hundred miles exactly where you are.

 

[Lindermyer]

Everything I know about it must have been wrong then....

I think that's probably a useful premise to start from.

 

[Simpering Civvie]

So use your sonar to listen for the sound of active sonobuoys or their splash?.
Use your sonar to listen for the sound of the MPAs engine?
Use your look stick to look for any sign of a patrolling MPA?

No, go active on a radar and tell any MPA within a few hundred miles exactly where you are.

Thanks for the answer, as I said it was an open question. I also specifically excluded sonobuoys, as I understand that some MPAs have other ways of following.

Also heard that sticking your scopes up would flag you to a search radar.

 

[Simpering Civvie]

I think that's probably a useful premise to start from.

So how does it work? I'm sure others would want to know too...

 

[Yokel]

Also had an excellent and broad education.

Not on things such as radio propagation though.

Sound does cross the air water boundary

Like a fart in the bath!

 

[Yokel]

Isn't weather radar quite high frequency? And it's air-reflect off water droplets-receive in air.

What I was thinking of (and I'm not sure it even exists) would be water based broadcaster-> pass the water/air boundary-> strike aluminium object in air-> reflect back-> pass air/water boundary-> hit water based receiver.

I've been told already that if such a system exists, it's not for public consumption.

Which is a shame, as the inventor would be a good candidate for a Nobel prize. Have you ever struggled with anything such as receiving a TV picture on a rainy day? Think how much attenuation a signal from a normal sized naval radar would suffer from just a few metres of sea water?

There is a reason why radio communication with submarines is VLF and ELF - with implications for antenna size.

 

[Deleted 3147]

Better than being an E-2 pilot...

Which is leagues above the C2 pilot......that really is rubber dog shit/Hong Kong territory; all the perils of CATS/traps with feck all bragging rights/glamour

 

[Deleted 3147]

Another silly question from me. Is there a way for a chased SSN/K to know it's being followed/hunted by a plane or helo? Especially if no sonobuoys have been dropped in the water?

I'm thinking of some super-duper underwater-capable radar?

Yes but radar, as has been said, it was too open, exposes the boat too much. There are better way, which are passive and allow for counter detection as varying ranges. Which one is used (or is best employed) will depend on how the aircraft are operating (passive or active).

 

[Deleted 3147]

?????

Anyway - not arguing with a PWO.

Do....they run out of steam very quickly