Cuts to transport aircraft numbers - time to rethink?

QRK2

LE
If that’s the extent of your evidence I’ll maintain my scepticism over the claim you made earlier.

Edit to add: Pinochet was arrested on the basis of an international warrant signed by a judge in Spain. He was held under house arrest in UK while extensive legal wrangles played out in court. He was eventually released when Jack Straw, the labour Home Secretary of the time, ruled that he was to be returned to Chile for rather tenuous health reasons, over the objections of several other European nations and NGOs. I’ve no brief for any political party but I can’t see anything in the circumstances of this case that justify your accusation that this was about labour taking petty revenge against Pinochet.

Plus the left in general and Labour in particular did not need the Falklands as a reason to do everything they could to 'get' Pinochet, he'd been one of their bête noires ever since he came to power.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
IIRC Pinochet was arrested by the Home Office, having been given reassurance by the Foreign Office that he wouldn’t be. Given that is was one of the biggest arrse-elbow interfaces in modern diplomatic history, I wouldn’t be too sanguine about any particular individuals POV.
I've ended drifting the thread inadvertently. Apologies all.

To get us back to the point of departure, I was talking about the use of civilian charters/carriers to shift a lot of what we routinely need shifting and that it doesn't need a specifically military (or even military-owned) aircraft to do the job.
 

Allan74

Old-Salt
i got the impression that a lot of modern day TTW planning was that everything could just be taken from trade.
Ships.Planes.Trains.fuel and so on if the shit hit the fan.
As goverment from both Tory and Labour see the MOD as an excuse to keep contracters and PFIs going is it any wonder its not fit for task
I posted the exact same question on PPRuNe: RAF transport fleet cuts

It appears that 50 C-130 Hercules were/are being replaced by 25 Atlas aircraft - on the basis that it can carry twice as much and fly twice as far. However, this means the force can only fly half the number of sorties, and has multiple commitments. @Magic_Mushroom told us that the transport fleet is busier than ever - whilst the airbridge to Afghanistan is gone, it still supports worldwide commitments.

Would you run a haulage company like this? The new trucks can carry more, so we need less of them, although we still have multiple customers.
Transport companies maintain a tiny reserve of trucks because if they need more, they hire 'em for the short term.

The US military simply hired aircraft when it needed more...presumably that is also the thinking of the MoD.
 

Alamo

LE
I've ended drifting the thread inadvertently. Apologies all.

To get us back to the point of departure, I was talking about the use of civilian charters/carriers to shift a lot of what we routinely need shifting and that it doesn't need a specifically military (or even military-owned) aircraft to do the job.
That happens already. You would need a loggie with DSCOM experience to tell you how much.
 
Winning the Falklands swung the election for Thatcher

Certainly didn't hurt, but let's not underestimate the contribution of the "longest suicide note in history".. aka "The Labour Party Manifesto 1983"

Took Kinnock 2 more elections, nine years and the defenestration of Mrs Thatcher to get back within yelling distance..
 
Certainly didn't hurt, but let's not underestimate the contribution of the "longest suicide note in history".. aka "The Labour Party Manifesto 1983"

Took Kinnock 2 more elections, nine years and the defenestration of Mrs Thatcher to get back within yelling distance..
Mind you Steptoes 2019 Manifesto came a close second?
 
Just to go back to a point in Yokel's post (quoted in Allan74's above), the plan was for 25 Atlas to replace 25 C-130K and for the other 25 x C-130K to be replaced by J-models.

The delays over the A400M led to the need for the C-17 (initially obtained under lease).

On Pinochet, I suspect that the government, after much celebratory champers in certain parts of the Labour establishment, realised that the nature of the help Chile provided might be presented in court.

If you know your way around the 'file retained by department' bits of the Falklands, I can imagine that there may have been a meeting at which colour drained from faces at the prospect of this coming out was realised - stuff that no British government of any stripe (bar Corbynista) would want to emerge, at least not in the late 1990s/early 2000s [or, if a recent FOI rejection is anything to go by, 2021] - and the General was swiftly sent on his merry way.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
I've ended drifting the thread inadvertently. Apologies all.

To get us back to the port of debarkation, I was talking about the use of civilian charters/carriers to shift a lot of what we routinely need shifting and that it doesn't need a specifically military (or even military-owned) aircraft to do the job.
FOC
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
That happens already. You would need a loggie with DSCOM experience to tell you how much.
I could have sworn I already had.....:wink:
 

Yokel

LE
Command Support Air Transport Recapitalisation (CSAT Recap)

The UK Ministry of Defence (MOD) currently operates a military fleet of BAe146 transport aircraft from RAF Northolt that will be withdrawn from service on 31 March 2022. The CSAT RECAP project aims to replace this capability by adopting a procurement strategy featuring two phases:

1. Phase 1: Competitive procurement of two civil Business Jets to be Accepted by 31 Mar 22 with an in-service support package that will run until 31 March 2024. Six, six-month Option periods (totaling 3 years) will be included in the Contract for continuation of the phase 1 in-service support as required. These aircraft will be owned by the MoD but operated on the Civil Aircraft Register and initially operated by contractor-provided civilian pilots. Phase 1 also includes the training of military pilots and cabin crew and the use of these service personnel to compliment the civilian pilots in the delivery of the service.

2. Phase 2: A separate competitive procurement for the embodiment of military modifications on the aircraft, from 1 April 2024 (subject to take-up of options), and provision of in-service support utilising military personnel in the operation of the aircraft, with an associated transfer of aircraft to the Military Aircraft Register.
 

Yokel

LE

That was the classic Hercules - not the J model which I think is still bring produced. I remember seeing a programme about it and the way it was used to fly food aid to remote places in Africa - a task suited to a rugged transport instead of s converter airliner. I have no idea if the J is similarly used by civil operators.

In 1982, ex RAF Belfast transports had to be hired at the rush to move large loads to Ascension Island.
 
That was the classic Hercules - not the J model which I think is still bring produced. I remember seeing a programme about it and the way it was used to fly food aid to remote places in Africa - a task suited to a rugged transport instead of s converter airliner. I have no idea if the J is similarly used by civil operators.

In 1982, ex RAF Belfast transports had to be hired at the rush to move large loads to Ascension Island.

The article covers the J model. It is merely a development of the original models, just like the military J.

Yes, the J is still being produced in Marietta. I used to live a few miles up US-41 from the plant.
 
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