Cuts in the Infantry

#1
8O If is the BBC is to be believed, which Infantry Regts are the most likely to face the cut. It looks like one of the Scots Regiments will go, the BBC talk about 4 or 5 battalions. Can we afford to lose one?
Concerned Civilian
 
#2
With the current operational commitments I cannot believe that we are looking at cutting-back on any of the teeth arms, or anyone else for that matter.

It seems however that our political masters still seem to want more from less. Unfortunately because we are so good at getting on with things and making things work (although I cannot wait for the POR from TELIC) we seem to get squeezed more yet.

As for who is going to go, there are plenty of us out there with 2nd Battalions.......

Hands up if you're a footprint Bn? Watch-out!

Increasingly concerned Infanteer!
 
#3
One thing mentioned in the report was that the Inf Btn in question (murmours have suggested either the Highlanders or Black Watch) would ensure an increase in other essential attached arms, the need for which has been highlighted in recent years/operations.

It has been 'suggested' that at least 300 AGC (RMP) may be provided as a result, giving an extra 5 NCOs to each RMP unit in UK and Germany, together with 100-200 extra military clerks.
 
#4
We are a footprint

As are the other capbadges in our amalgamated bastardisation.

5 years ago, I'd have said, "No way can they chop us, we're the County Regiment, we have history, a shedload of veterans in influential positions"

The Mayor of our County Town, was at OTU with my Father in 1945 in India, and he put his hat in the ring, lots of veterans got involved, press and National television

For what?

Decisions were already made, and some of the people, that we'd hoped would speak up for us in the Ivory Tower, were more concerned with their new appointments , at least, so it seemed to us. It certainly seemed so, when I was informed exactly whose nose I'd put out of joint, and there was a hell of a sh1tstorm. We were cut from 4 companies to one, and amalgamated with our traditional enemies. The New Regiment's footprint, must be easily the largest in England , or bloody close, with RHQ in about the most inaccesible place in the UK on a Friday night.

Our MP was lobbied , and I mean very very hard by myself and another. He announced, with great pride, that he had managed to "Save the cadet unit" The To**er, :evil: :evil: :evil:

The fact is, the PUBLIC don't care. They do care, if they have relatives serving, or are ex-forces.

The problem, starts with simple PR. We are NOT doing enough, to make ourselves visible to the UK public. Yes I know we parade our Freedoms, I know we do the Queens Birthday gig, and the latest Bunfight certainly raised the UK publics awareness.

But for what?

Once the firing has finished and the papers move on to something else, we are forgotten. We need to be doing much, much more to ingratiate ourselves with the public. I know it's all down to money, I know it's down to time available, but every time you are in uniform, working with the community, you are remembered.

As a Milita unit, we welcomed the news of the CCRF initative. Here at last, was something we could get involved in. But right now, we're waiting for a bomb to go off, and by the time we're organised, we , (As was remarked by a senior Copper) might as well be turning up with brooms, because we'll be just in time to sweep up the debris. Why aren't we out in the flooding? Why aren't we out dealing with civil problems, that occur every winter? Why are the Regulars called on for this? I think the TA proved it was up to the job on Telic. so why can't we be doing the same thing for Civpop?

As long as civpop doesn't care, the politicians can get away with everything. The time to get the PR out there is NOW. Never mind speculation on who will and won't go. We can all think of 1001 reasons why our unit shouldn't get axed, but the suits only have to think of one

Get the recruiting stands out at Football and rugby stadiums pre-match, get involved in County or local life, get in the press as often as possible, try and get a regular slot, as we used to do pre-war with the local press.Get the website up, and create forums were young people in your recruiting footprint can find out more.Start a "Friends of" campaign. The spams do something similar, with their "Future Airborne/Infantry/Trucker" unit campaigns. Civpop will be interested, if you are in their eye. More open days, more visibility.

In these days of Mass media ,Recruitment and PR will be the key to whether you stay or go. I know it's the wrong way round, and your role should dictate it, but Politicians want votes. If they stand to lose 10,000 votes over a disbandment, they'll fight your corner.


Sorry for rambling, doing 6 things at once again....
 
#5
Can hardly believe it - hasn't anything that has happened in the last ten years taught these idiots anything - if anything we need more infantry soldiers and also more support troops as well. The armed forces are now involved in Iraq for the forseeable future, the Balkans, Cyprus, NI and have to be on standby for firemen, bin men, posties etc etc and any other mad scheme the government dreams up - you can do somethings more efficiently with technology, but you still need soldiers of the goround to ensure things get done.

Plus what happens when the technology breaks down or the batteries die.....answers on a postcard please. :evil:

Also after the Garda arrested those gentlemen on a stroll through the woods I think it would be reasonably safe bet to kiss your NI peace dividend goodbye as well.

PtP i agree that units need to now start promoting themselves more, but fear that it will have little success - a good example is both the Gordons and the Queens Own prior to their amalgamation - mass local and national support for them to remain as seperate entities, but some muppet in whitehall did for them anyway.

Recruiting for the Highlanders is now worse than it was prior to the amalgamation. Potential recruits wanted/still want to join the Gordons or Queens Own - if the can't they won't join. Also the Regiment has lost the support of the local community as they don't feel that they have a stake in it - this is true also for the bastardised TA regional infantry battalions.

In certain regions the only way to recruit to the army is to have the local regiment - if it is deleted the desire to join up also disappears.

I think PENIS (Practical Exercise Not Involving Sanity) best describes this. No wonder soldiers are leaving and no one wants to join :evil:
 
#6
This from some geezer in the QO Hldrs association:
I was also rung by Moray Firth Radio today in my capacity as the local Scottish Conservative executive about the latest rumour regarding The Highlanders being disbanded. I pointed out that the Tory MP starting this was Patrick Mercer ex officer from 1 WFR who is probably trying to protect his own very small and little known regiment. Since 1 HLDRS have the best retention rate in the British Army it makes sense to leave them alone this time. Anyone want a bet on the Royal Scots Borderers or 1st Bn The Royal Highlanders (BW and ASH)?

Good fighting spirit but do the Hldrs REALLY have such a good retention rate? They are understrength but they aren't as bad as 1RS. But they'll more'n'likely get saved by virtue of being the senior regiment of the line! 1BW aren't much better but they're post-TELIC image is pretty good athe moment.

Must admit, I do feel sorry for anyone that has to be amalgamated with the KOSB. :? In fact, why can't we just disband them? :twisted:
 
#7
1 BW recruitment and retention is ok - better than most at present. A big mistake is to compare the numbers of soldiers needed for light role and armour - each role should be taken on their own merits (though armour requires more than light).

1BW reformed a new company in the last 2 years - (D i think)
 
#8
Apparently The Highlanders do have the best retention in the Scots Div and have sent more recruits to Catterick this year than anyone else. It would be pretty tight to amalgamate/disband a Regiment that has only exsisted for 9 years.
 
#9
Apparently the Colonel-of-the-Regiment of a line infantry regiment was investigating whether it was feasible to change its name to something that better reflected its recruiting area and historical background.

He was told by someone pretty high up in the system not to bother until next year as the Government was looking at axing 4 or 5 Infantry Battalions.

Anyone else heard similar?
 
#10
Apparently the Colonel-of-the-Regiment of a line infantry regiment was investigating whether it was feasible to change its name to something that better reflected its recruiting area and historical background.
He was told that it was against the wishes of all the Scottish Regiments. Yes.. there are likely to be cuts in the Infantry but still some more work to do in order to refine the options (alledgedly !)
 
#11
Yes.. there are likely to be cuts in the Infantry but still some more work to do in order to refine the options (alledgedly !)
Ramillies, we were told this last time. Not even our CO at the time was really aware, until very very late, of the true horror of how badly the axe was going to fall. We had to find out from a tame journalist on a broadsheet, who'd got a copy of the list of axees (Heh! new word) We saw the list, CO got a copy too, it was bad.

I think the last time, the word was "You'll be leaner, fitter, doing more, you'll be getting the latest kit and training etc etc"

It didn't happen. We got CS95 and new webbing (Late) and that was all.

The units are being cut, to pay for some mistake somewhere, or to find the money to pay for a future expensive mistake.

Sooner or later, this Great Army of ours, is going to have to have a prescence in just about every likely trouble spot in the world, as this Government commits us, to more and more shennanigans via the Casa Blanca.

That means a man on the ground with a rifle, either fighting the locals, or protecting them. If we're short of the men with rifles, what are we going to do?

In an ideal world, our leaders would say "Sorry, no can do, not enough troops" but, that's an ideal world. It's the same old story, do more with even less.

Yes, I believe the unspoken master plan, is to treat the TA like an employment agency, that's what is happening now. I don't think we'd mind, if we were just given the MTD's and equipment we need. However, we can't have that , because the Government, have to find the money to pay for the next whizzy bit of kit/costly mistake.

I really expected to see more opposition to this proposal from the Head sheds. Surely it can't be that difficult, to put together a proposal that shows why exactly we can't trim any more lean from the lean?

I fear, that one day, we're going to run into a situation that will take a lot more than British fighting spirit to carry the day, if this lunacy continues.
 
#12
PTP,

Yes.. with you on everything you say. Of course no one wants these cuts. With everything that is going on.. with perhaps more to come.. we need as many Inf Units as we can.

However the majority of Inf Regts are now so undermanned that when they are deployed they are backfilled from other Inf Regts therebye contributing to turbulance, overstretch and other retention negative aspects.

As has been mentioned in other forums, the bottomline is we cannot man the Inf Regts we have, and have been unable to do so now for up to 10 years in some cases.

More resources need to be diverted to recruiting and retention in order stop this downward spiral.

That said - if everyone on this board recruited just one person, we would save the 4 or so Regiments that might be cut. :D
 
#13
#14
I've just re-read the link I posted above. How about this for a quote:

In a speech in June he (Geoff Hoon) said military success was no longer so dependent on troop numbers. He said technology was now the key adding “measuring the capability of our armed forces by the number of units will no longer be significant”.

Magnificent. So we can take and hold ground with 'technology' eh?

Raving mad.
 
#15
Hairyhaw said:
This from some geezer in the QO Hldrs association:
I was also rung by Moray Firth Radio today in my capacity as the local Scottish Conservative executive about the latest rumour regarding The Highlanders being disbanded. I pointed out that the Tory MP starting this was Patrick Mercer ex officer from 1 WFR who is probably trying to protect his own very small and little known regiment. Since 1 HLDRS have the best retention rate in the British Army it makes sense to leave them alone this time. Anyone want a bet on the Royal Scots Borderers or 1st Bn The Royal Highlanders (BW and ASH)?

Good fighting spirit but do the Hldrs REALLY have such a good retention rate? They are understrength but they aren't as bad as 1RS. But they'll more'n'likely get saved by virtue of being the senior regiment of the line! 1BW aren't much better but they're post-TELIC image is pretty good athe moment.

Must admit, I do feel sorry for anyone that has to be amalgamated with the KOSB. :? In fact, why can't we just disband them? :twisted:
Disband the KOSB when the Hldrs have a company of Gurkhas and the BW half the male population of Fiji?
 
#16
looks like the IRISH infantry could be disappearing in one swoop according to the Daily telegraph 1bn of Royal Irish is to be disbanded considering that the other 3 are HS and are schedued for disbandment in the nex few years that means that the remaaining one is on the list to and the BBC said the Irish Guards are on the list so no more Irish infantry. Our 2 cav regts are now amalgamated into othe units so their names don't appear on the orbat so sein fein have their wish of no irish regiments in the british army.
 
#17
Read in the Torygraph today that rather than simply axe the threatened Battalions/Regiments, instead they would remove one Company, and either make it Territorial, or simply not have it at all. The theory was that this would then make the Battalion a much leaner one, ready for fast deployment if necessary.
Personally, I think this is a good move. I would hate to see such tremendous Regiments go under, just because of one Cake and Arrse government. I suppose I've got a bit of an emotional connection with the Highlanders, as my great-grandfather was RSM of the Seaforths. Wouldn't like to see them go, but wouldn't like the see the others go either.
I'll see if I can find the link to the story.
 
#18
I suspect that we should all wait and see what the White Paper has to say. Much of this is speculation, no doubt by undermanned Regiments, done in order to panic folk and to get the hearts bleeding.

Getting rid of companies to make us leaner will only mean that we will have to deploy two full bns at a time in order to fully man one.

Leaner and meaner my arrse. Leaner and more stags to do more like.

Only a couple of weeks until the DWP I believe.
 
#19
DWP draft is out and about, and doing the rounds...however WPs don't really commit the govt to anything - as much of a thinkpiece as anything else...we should be more concerned by the FAS (future army structures) paper being created, I think by Army Resurces and Programmes (RP) who get told to model various force structures based on given scenarios. Like save £14 Bn across defence.... or something ludicrous.
The nexus of the cash crisis is the Resource Account Budgeting which has been foisted onto us by the treasury...whereby our assets (bldgas, land, eqpt etc) are all factoed in as resource stock. The MOD managed to overvalue itslef by about 20Bn quid...so I believe...ergo..problems.
The whole thing is a crock. A CR or WR fleet is not a transferrable stock. Neither are training/basing infrastructures - they're hard physical capability. If you sell off the kit, or elect to no longer maintain it, you have to pay for its destruction and removal, and then you lose capability. Until you need to reacquire it again...51mm mortars, GPMG at pl level etc...
The only person who can stop the rot is Blair, and this done by saying to Brown - leave off the MOD. And it has to be based on requirements and commitments - ie , contributing to GWOT, NATO NRFs, 1 Med Scale and 2 Small scale op commitments and getting our forces back to recuperation - our intervals of 24 months (as oppose to 8 monthss, or less in cases).

In turn, the only way to flag up the evil of this ludicrous situation is for some tres grand fromage of Chief of Staff or Secretary of State level to fall on their sword in a very public manner, clearly describing their reasoning - ie the world's much more dangerous now than ever before, and the very very last thing we need are more cuts, as ultimate guarantors of national safety. In short, the treasury needs a hard kick in the slats!

I have every confidence that this wil be the case...sometime after my Space Shuttle Instructor's Course bid gets accepted...
 
#20
i agree totally at least the Royal Navy did it and look what happened sea harrier is still being scrapped.
If the CGS resigns it won't make a button of difference as the govt will just appoint someone who will do as they wish!!!
 

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