Cuts are starting....

devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA, if they didn't have the fun parts then you can kiss goodbye to a good number of junior soldiers who can and will go and find something more appealing of a weekend.

My bold - are they though? They weren't when i joined and i don't think that was the case with the majority of our blokes, then or now. Paid AT and sport was a bonus - the latter of which i admittedly took advantage of. Times have changed now and so has the role of the TA in terms of its contribution to operations.

My bold italics - you don't have to do TA every weekend and certainly if you do, for instance, 1 in 4 weekends, that still leaves you the other 3 weekends to do those more appealing things.

We have to be realistic and acknowledge that our training should be geared towards operations and that is the priority. As has previously been stated, in times of reduced finance/budgets it is the extras that are sacrificed - belts are tightened and slack reduced. All of the AT and sport you want to be paid for could equally be done elsewhere unpaid for and, if you weren't in the TA, you would be funding yourself anyway.
 
devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA, if they didn't have the fun parts then you can kiss goodbye to a good number of junior soldiers who can and will go and find something more appealing of a weekend.
So what ?? :? The world is an infinitely different place now in regards to the life of a soldier, be it TA or regular. If someone throws his dummy because he cant go to Fremington for a week or snap up a weekend canoeing and decides to wrap then tough sh*t, Im not TA, but every tour I went on bar 1, we had RMR or TA lads, all wanted to be there and all bar a couple were the dog's b*llocks, lifes changing, for all concerned, if a drill hall starts to empty then re-advertise yourself accordingly.
No one would suggest for a minute that there hasnt been anything short of a lifesaving effort by the reserves and TA in respect to tour commitments but the days of old are gone. Shave off your dead wood where it applies, compact your training with relevance to the operational requirements and saddle up (again, where it applies)

(I have a tool of an excuse for a human being a few hundred yards down who is part of the big cut re - TA sigs units in the North West, his only gripe is that he loses the money that he gets for swanning about doing p*ss all, week in week out..) :D
 
If AT and stuff are considered so essential could it not be arranged that some of the cost could be picked up by the unit and some by the soldier. Yes it would be an unpaid weekend which is what would allow the unit the funding to pay for their part. Overall cost to the unit would be reduced. Similar things such as a reduced level of pay for attending competitions could be introduced. Which would allow the person to still get some pay for their times however not the full pay though as they are attending a gucci weekend which whilst important for them wont bring too much back to the unit.
 
reni_77 said:
devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA, if they didn't have the fun parts then you can kiss goodbye to a good number of junior soldiers who can and will go and find something more appealing of a weekend.
So what ?? :? The world is an infinitely different place now in regards to the life of a soldier, be it TA or regular. If someone throws his dummy because he cant go to Fremington for a week or snap up a weekend canoeing and decides to wrap then tough sh*t, Im not TA, but every tour I went on bar 1, we had RMR or TA lads, all wanted to be there and all bar a couple were the dog's b*llocks, lifes changing, for all concerned, if a drill hall starts to empty then re-advertise yourself accordingly.
No one would suggest for a minute that there hasnt been anything short of a lifesaving effort by the reserves and TA in respect to tour commitments but the days of old are gone. Shave off your dead wood where it applies, compact your training with relevance to the operational requirements and saddle up (again, where it applies)

(I have a tool of an excuse for a human being a few hundred yards down who is part of the big cut re - TA sigs units in the North West, his only gripe is that he loses the money that he gets for swanning about doing p*ss all, week in week out..) :D
Fair one. I do agree with you and it's right to mag to grid deadwood, but a good few junior soldiers are not dead wood. They could very well be the ones that are going on tour and doing the courses that keep the TA running, but taking away the elements that make it worth while will drive some of them away. And putting C1 titles onto a weekend will only cost them money, money they will no doubt think is better spent on the golf course or whatever they decide to do of a weekend.
 
Seems very selfish to me all this.

Adventure training and all that gear would be appreciated more by those who are living away from home and family, bored to tears and stuck in the Army 24/7. Retention was a massive problem when I was in because lads were just so bored/lonely. Any little extras they can get is well deserved.

If I want to go jet skiing or hill walking or some crap, I can take a day off work and do it.

I've never fired a 50 cal. I want to join the TA and get to rag round a field firing a 50 cal. Shooting club? F*****g targets will fall when hit. You're in one.
 
The MATT Level 3 thing is, as I was told it, a temporary thing for some RSigs units due to the restructuring - it makes a mess of admin and the like while units are moving regiments etc. so it'll be level 3 for a bit while it's all sorted and people retrain on new kit, then back up to level 2.
 
INT_QRM said:
I hope there is some flexibility in this new plan, and that the things that are in jeopardy are those things that many soldiers enjoy the most. Few that I know in the lower ranks could afford to attend the afore mentioned training unpaid.
I hope so. So far this means I have to miss one in every two weekends, I shouldn't have joined 2 Sig Bde Sales team last week, I can't volunteer to instructor on any future 2 Sig Bde trade camp.

As Sigs I probably agree with dropping to level 3 MATTs, the re-training in some cases is flammin huge: New driving quals, familiarisation on trucks, converting operators to new trades, learning new equipment.
 
polar said:
As Sigs I probably agree with dropping to level 3 MATTs, the re-training in some cases is flammin huge: New driving quals, familiarisation on trucks, converting operators to new trades, learning new equipment.
What is it with all this level 3 MATTS rubbish? It's easy enough to acheive Level 1 nevermind the normal level 2. Why, if you advicate that R Signals personnel are stepping up to the mark and serving on Ops, would you think that Level 3 MATTS are acceptable? I'm in a R Signals unit and whilst I'm not retraining, we are still at level 2 Matts, surely its not that difficult to complete MATTs L2 it can't help to drop to L3.

(not having a go, but why would level3 help the troops?)
 
polar said:
I hope so. So far this means I have to miss one in every two weekends, I shouldn't have joined 2 Sig Bde Sales team last week, I can't volunteer to instructor on any future 2 Sig Bde trade camp.
However, one thing that is annoying is that why should keen guys, like yourself be stopped from attending unit camp+bde trade camp+other stuff because off MTD's? I'm sure that gives back to your unit. I'm sure your unit isn't 100% full so I'm guessing they don't take up all the MTD's allocated to the unit. Why can't you go over 50days?
 
forniup said:
What is it with all this level 3 MATTS rubbish? It's easy enough to acheive Level 1 nevermind the normal level 2. Why, if you advicate that R Signals personnel are stepping up to the mark and serving on Ops, would you think that Level 3 MATTS are acceptable? I'm in a R Signals unit and whilst I'm not retraining, we are still at level 2 Matts, surely its not that difficult to complete MATTs L2 it can't help to drop to L3.,
For you, personally and individually - sure, it might be easy to stay up at level 2. Now multiply by your whole regiment - there's MTDs being used up just running the thing and on days when MATTs are taking place, other stuff could happen instead - like retraining on new kit, without which units aren't actually useful except for IRs anyway.
 
looktowindward said:
forniup said:
What is it with all this level 3 MATTS rubbish? It's easy enough to acheive Level 1 nevermind the normal level 2. Why, if you advicate that R Signals personnel are stepping up to the mark and serving on Ops, would you think that Level 3 MATTS are acceptable? I'm in a R Signals unit and whilst I'm not retraining, we are still at level 2 Matts, surely its not that difficult to complete MATTs L2 it can't help to drop to L3.,
For you, personally and individually - sure, it might be easy to stay up at level 2. Now multiply by your whole regiment - there's MTDs being used up just running the thing and on days when MATTs are taking place, other stuff could happen instead - like retraining on new kit, without which units aren't actually useful except for IRs anyway.
Have to agree with you both. Most of us know who is going to fail.

What is missing from the TA is a system where NCO's/officers identify a soldier failing to meet standards and the are then tested against them (after corrective instruction within AGAI 67). We must all know soldiers who fail to meet basic trade standards and/fitness, has the time come to get rid?

It's not easy to accept - good friends, friends of their family, likeable person, etc. Not been a regular attender myself over the last year, so not certain of my future. Don't care though, have helped my current sqn and my previous sqn over the last week (plus others and its my old regt and current regt), if thats how it ends then cool - done my duty.

p.s. I'm not a spy for any sqn
 
looktowindward said:
forniup said:
What is it with all this level 3 MATTS rubbish? It's easy enough to acheive Level 1 nevermind the normal level 2. Why, if you advicate that R Signals personnel are stepping up to the mark and serving on Ops, would you think that Level 3 MATTS are acceptable? I'm in a R Signals unit and whilst I'm not retraining, we are still at level 2 Matts, surely its not that difficult to complete MATTs L2 it can't help to drop to L3.,
For you, personally and individually - sure, it might be easy to stay up at level 2. Now multiply by your whole regiment - there's MTDs being used up just running the thing and on days when MATTs are taking place, other stuff could happen instead - like retraining on new kit, without which units aren't actually useful except for IRs anyway.
What other stuff surely Matts are the comon denominator? The basic level that everyone has to be tested on? I know there are a lot of guys that have to change regiments/trades but fcuk they should still be able to complete this. With the amount of PIDs that arn't filled that should be enough to cover it
 
devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA, if they didn't have the fun parts then you can kiss goodbye to a good number of junior soldiers who can and will go and find something more appealing of a weekend.
Call me old fashioned but "the fun parts" used to be the exercises ( especially FIBUA ). AT and competitions were something additional to soldiering, not instead of....
 
devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA
Disagree strongly; decent training and focussed, well-planned and executed exercises are key ( and I speak from the strongest non-Parachutist Infantry compay in the TA. )
 
Bravo_Bravo said:
devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA
Disagree strongly; decent training and focussed, well-planned and executed exercises are key ( and I speak from the strongest non-Parachutist Infantry compay in the TA. )
Sorry Devlish, have to agree with BB. Just be on a very good weekend - BOWMAN, Inmarsat training, wolf conversions, expert advice on comms systems from experts in the industry, fun BBQ and management training, etc.

p.s. I reckon BB's lost it.
 
Bravo_Bravo said:
devilish said:
I personal think it is madness to put AT and competitions onto C1 training. These are the very things that keep people coming to the TA
Disagree strongly; decent training and focussed, well-planned and executed exercises are key ( and I speak from the strongest non-Parachutist Infantry compay in the TA. )
Excellent! I know Workington quite well.... :wink:
 

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