Cumbria Report

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by Beerhunter, Nov 2, 2010.

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  1. The Police report into the Cumbria shootings by Assistant Chief Constable Adrian Whiting, of Dorset Police has just hit the wires.

    According to the report, Cumbria police were blameless - which is reasonable due to them not being psychic. However he appears to believe that Certificate Holders' family members and doctors are because he is calling for them to assess applicants in future.

    Needless to say, in the proud tradition of the police and Home Office ACC Whiting slipstreamed another item which had nothing whatsoever to do with his remit: "ACC Whiting said the law needed to be clarified around the use of firearms for pest control after what he described as a "significant" increase in handguns held for such purposes." So expect to see more legislation on legal handguns carried over the bodies of the victims of a shotgun.
  2. You mean we'll just have another amendment tacked onto the Firearms Act and the Home Office review will just be a whitewash? I had such high hopes..........
  3. I'm sorry,I didn't understand the part about a '"significant" increase in handguns held for such purposes',what handguns are used for pest control,or am I missing something.

    As for saying the Cumbria Police were "blameless",did you expect anything different, I would expect any Police Force to find nothing wrong with issuing a Shotgun licence,to an ex-jailbird taxi driver,with a penchant for heavy drinking,ACPO strikes again.
  4. Well Part 2 of the report manages to incorporate "observations regarding potential changes...." so it is effectively an ACPO wish list that has been tacked on the back.

    The bit about handguns used for humane dispatch appears to be based around the is a "public expectation" that all handguns have been banned.

    Also some noises about operation of Minature Rifles Ranges, access to fireams by non FAC holders via HO approved clubs and a number of other points but buried in there is a suggestion of "Prohibited Person" status, i.e applying to someone who has has a Wholly Suspended Sentence. Just like Mr Bird

    Findings of Firearms Licensing Review published
  5. No, I think its a knee jerk reaction to the police losing the case over an unrestricted .44 for humane dispatch earlier this year - some info here The Sportsman’s Association » July 2010
  6. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    It seems in reading the report on the Derrick Bird case put out by Adrian Whiting, he confirms pretty much what everyone already knew. I'll summarise:

    In terms of his possession of firearms/shotguns, what he had was pretty much the very mininum a game/pest shooter would have in the ordinary course of knocking off various small game. One 20g over and under (which he didn't use to kill anyone), one old 12g side by side hammer gun (it wouldn't even have ejected the cartridges for him like modern guns do to save time on reloading) and one cheap CZ .22 rimfire rifle. This wouldn't exactly fit the descrition of a 'mass murder kit' such as that used in the Dunblane and other incidents.

    As far as his being granted certification, the bloke had been in posession of firearms/shotguns since he was 16 going on 17 years old - that meant he'd had and used guns for 36 years without using them to commit any crimes, and for all intents and purposes, considering he'd never come to police attention for misuse of them, he'd used them responsibly and as intended.

    Where his mental health and his medical records are concerned - he rarely visited his GP, and neither his GP nor the NHS as a whole had any record or worry whatsoever that the guy was at risk of going postal. As far as his family was concerned, they had no such fears either - complete shock and horror on their part. This being the case, there's absolutely no way his behaviour could have been predicted by the police or medical profession, and thus they had no reason to remove or revoke his licences.

    As far as his convictions go, there is some dout as to whether he should have been granted any firearms considering his convictions for theft and dishonesty. He had them removed briefly at one point, but the ban was overturned by the courts. The law is quite clear on what terms a revocation can occur and for what length of time. In the case of Derrick Bird, his sentences were suspended and for a short period. Even if he'd been sent to jail for the period of the sentence at the time, he would have been legally able to reapply for certification in due course, and would have thus been able to have these in his possession once again at the very time he went on his rampage. That's as the law allows. His crimes where category two involving dishonesty, not violence or threats thereof.

    Quite simply, noting the above, the report by Whiting is correct IMHO - it couldn't be predicted; it was only the notification of concerned citizens (which didn't happen) in the week leading to his going mental that could have stalled these events. He was legally entitled to own them, there was no good cause for the police to revoke them and thus no change of practice on the part of the police or the law would have stopped this event happening, apart from of course, a complete ban on all firearms whatsoever to anyone at all, which would just leave the police, the armed forces and criminals using them and our complete withdrawal from all shooting sports, both nationaly and internationally, such as the Olympics and the uncontrolled expansion of pests and game in the UK, leading to mass disease, starvation and crop and other wildlife damage occuring.

    As for Whiting's recommendations and the activities of the ACPO, that's another story. The anti-gun Green Paper of 30 odd years ago that would basically **** the shooting scene and people's right to bear arms (yes, we do have one) is all but implemented now, and it wouldn't surprise me Vaz and his retarded chums go the whole hog and implement it in full.

    Still, if all else fails, and I want to go postal, I could get a syringe, or a stick of rock sucked to a point, or a knife from mummy's kitchen draw, or perhaps even steal a bus . . . . . . . that'll learn 'em!
  7. whats wrong with using a longbow to slot or at least annoy people when on a rampage.
    if your foriegn you could always use a crossbow I suppose
  8. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    No surprise there then! Man who had no grounds for being assessed as a risk killed several people. Police want to ban everything possible just in case. Lets see what Call Me Dave does eh?
  9. Anyone got an update on the likely in service date of the national firearms licensing system as agreed after Dunblane? An independent licensing authority seems like a good idea, apart from anything else it might bring some consistency to the way police officers are tooled up.
  10. We can only hope and pray!

    Our saving grace is of course the fact that Dave apparently spent most of his formative years stalking on his Stepdads highland estate
  11. Except that they can't. They are a Select Committee of the House of Commons. That is say not part of the Government.
  12. It is up and running. (It took umpteen years to get it going.) It is just a national database.
  13. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Its not what a lot of people wanted, you basically have about 30 numbers before your old FAC/SGC number, this means that all forces share a common start to the number series. These numbers are also linked into the PNC so should you get stopped on the road for any reason the rozzers in theory should know you have a ticket.