Cultural Marxism, the Neo Right, and threats to Western Democracy

#63
You make a fair case. Again, there comes a point at which the tolerant British say enough is enough. A classic example of this pendulum swing is the Trade Union movement in the 1970's. Initially the underdogs, fighting for the rights of British workers, by the time that the union bosses were taking "beer and sandwiches in No 10" they were seen to have become overly authoritarian and part of the problem. This ushered in the Thatcher era.

Whilst the predictions of inter-ethnic strife in Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech did not then come to pass, it was primarily because the initial wave of Indian and Caribbean immigrants quickly integrated into the British way of life. The same is not the case with the Muslim community, or in some cases the children of the initial immigrants. Nor do I think these communities can be blamed directly. It has been a deliberate policy of successive UK governments to pursue a twin track approach of permitting largely unrestricted immigration whilst encouraging the politics of identity and of voluntary segregation, which serves to keep communities (of all sorts) apart.

It is understandable that large numbers of people do not like this. The risk is always that where reasonable doubt is suppressed for too long, the pull to the extremes becomes stronger. This is pretty well how authoritarian imposition of the Versailles Treaty on proud, defeated and resentful Germany begat Hitler.
It is my contention that it has already gone past the point of no return. A country our size cant assimilate such large numbers of strikingly different people. The idea that there is a "melting pot" inwhich these different cultures will eventually break down and form a new one that is basically British is a fantasy. Islam does not play long very well with the idea of being watered down or changed in an way and it is the yard stick used in every way to determine a course of action with these people.

That we refer to to them a "communities" is part of the problem. What they are, are parallel societies.

What I don't understand and have never heard an answer to is if we simply had to have 10 or 20 million migrants in a short space of time then why could we not get them from our english speaking friends such as Oz, Nz, Canada and the US? The truth is that those people would fit in extremely well and would have been welcomed by all.

Instead we just went for the easiest ones to get and hoped it would not destroy the country.

I don't disagree with your assessment but I sincerely believe that this in itself combined with far left authoritarianism is by order of magnitude the greater threat to the country than the tiny (hundreds) of genuine far righters. Have you ever seen or met anyone with far right views? I have not but I have met, worked with and known people with far left views, they are far more numerous, they control the media, the higher education system, the labour party, the social media networks and increasingly the banks.

What do the far right people control? nothing.

Politics is all about balance. I'm sure there is some political science term for this but the political spectrum always balances itself with degrees of opposing ideologies. Where the far left emerge, the far right follow. If there is no far left, the far right disappear again. They are largely a reaction to each other.

Those in power are responsible for this mess and the only solution is to purge them all, all of them and to do away with the systems that allowed them to do this to us. Not much chance of this happening so we can either leave or we can just learn arabic, somali or urdu and grin and bear it.
 
#66
I'm not certain but he might be referring to the fact in the eyes of the leftist, everyone to the political right of Fidel Castro is "Far Right".

Take Theresa May, she is a Neo Liberal to borrow a term form the Americans. She is not a conservative, she is a centre left preservationist but she now heads up the formerly Right wing / Sometimes centre right wing party in the UK.

When a real conservative comes along, they are branded as Far Right.

You only need to look at some legacy media headlines about various conservative figures for ten minutes to get a feel for the fact that "Far Right" is nothing but an attempted smear used to discredit political opposition to the marxist narrative.

Carl Benjamin, the man who said that he would not rape Jess Phillips or anyone else for that matter and the UKIP MEP candidate for the South West is constantly being tagged as "Far Right" inspite of publishing thousands of videos on youtube pushing the values and ideals of classical liberalism.

Got a legitimate concern about mass immigration? Far right nazi

Dont like the fact that there are ISIS and other jihadists being cultivated in the UK? Far right nazi

Think that trans-gendered people who enter into womens power lifting events and smash all the records on their first try ? Far right nazi

Think that "the best person for the job" should get the job? Far Right nazi and possibly a fascist

Want a sensible, sustainable and low impact approach to asylum seekers and migrants? Fascist

Want the democratic result of the EU ref to be honoured? Obviously only a Far Right nazi fascist would want such a thing.

The term "Far Right" is used to discredit, silence and smear anyone who challenges the narrative and it works, on this site alone at any one time there are multiple, bitter arguments taking place over subjects and people where one side has looked into it in detail and has realised that all is not as it seems and the other side bitterly enforcing the headlines of "Far right".

I've fallen into it myself a few times and found myself defending people who I do not necessarily like or agree with but I feel I must when they have been mislabled and people are being lied to about them.


It is made all the more sinister when the main information outlets (social media) are censoring right wing individuals and groups at a rate of knots, banning them from the platforms, lobying the payment processors, mastercard, visa etc to ban them to and doing everything that they can to ruin those who voice dissent.

It would be funny if it were not so serious. This is how civilisations fall. Anyone who has read anything about the Roman's ought to know this.
Teresa May identifies as a One Nation Tory, which is a rather old fashioned school of thought that is a paternalistic form of Conservatism, unlike the more cut throat, 'devil take the hindmost' school of monetarist Conservatism championed by Thatcher.
By Thatcherite standards,May is a bit of a Wet.
She is NOT a 'neo liberal'. She is more truly 'Conservative' (From the verb, to Conserve, or keep things as they are) than most of the Conservative Party.

She is a throwback, to a more moderate school of Conservatism that was mainstream thought a century ago.
 
#67
It is my contention that it has already gone past the point of no return. A country our size cant assimilate such large numbers of strikingly different people. The idea that there is a "melting pot" inwhich these different cultures will eventually break down and form a new one that is basically British is a fantasy. Islam does not play long very well with the idea of being watered down or changed in an way and it is the yard stick used in every way to determine a course of action with these people.

That we refer to to them a "communities" is part of the problem. What they are, are parallel societies.

What I don't understand and have never heard an answer to is if we simply had to have 10 or 20 million migrants in a short space of time then why could we not get them from our english speaking friends such as Oz, Nz, Canada and the US? The truth is that those people would fit in extremely well and would have been welcomed by all.

Instead we just went for the easiest ones to get and hoped it would not destroy the country.

I don't disagree with your assessment but I sincerely believe that this in itself combined with far left authoritarianism is by order of magnitude the greater threat to the country than the tiny (hundreds) of genuine far righters. Have you ever seen or met anyone with far right views? I have not but I have met, worked with and known people with far left views, they are far more numerous, they control the media, the higher education system, the labour party, the social media networks and increasingly the banks.

What do the far right people control? nothing.

Politics is all about balance. I'm sure there is some political science term for this but the political spectrum always balances itself with degrees of opposing ideologies. Where the far left emerge, the far right follow. If there is no far left, the far right disappear again. They are largely a reaction to each other.

Those in power are responsible for this mess and the only solution is to purge them all, all of them and to do away with the systems that allowed them to do this to us. Not much chance of this happening so we can either leave or we can just learn arabic, somali or urdu and grin and bear it.
For myself in Canada, what vexes me is that the current Canadian Tories who adopt policies of the New Democratic Party (Canada's socialist party since the 1960s) that the NDP held in the 1980s is now so "far right" and "white supremacist" that I just feel like dropping my trousers around my ankles and pressing my ass to the window of their opinions. If you make legitimate concerns unrespectable, don't be surprised if unrespectable candidates wind up in Parliament.
 
#68
Teresa May identifies as a One Nation Tory, which is a rather old fashioned school of thought that is a paternalistic form of Conservatism, unlike the more cut throat, 'devil take the hindmost' school of monetarist Conservatism championed by Thatcher.
By Thatcherite standards,May is a bit of a Wet.
She is NOT a 'neo liberal'. She is more truly 'Conservative' (From the verb, to Conserve, or keep things as they are) than most of the Conservative Party.

She is a throwback, to a more moderate school of Conservatism that was mainstream thought a century ago.
Yes but the definition of the word "Conservative" is not the same as their ideology which is supposed to be free market capitalism. If that were the yard stick then what would we make of the Labour party? A party akin to a woman in state of child birth? perhaps but i dont buy the other literal sense of the word that would imply that they intend to carry out some labour and work for a living. The current labour party seem hellbent on taking the hard cash from the well off and giving it away to those who have failed to make a success of themselves.

She seem more concerned with social engineering and staying in the European Union at all costs than just getting on with capitalism.

She wants curbs on executive pay, worker on the board and lets not forget that she is allowing nearly 300,000 economic migrants with dubious backgrounds in every year and shows no signs of stopping.

She is the most left wing PM that we have had in 40 + years.

It's fine if we disagree, this is my current opinion of her though.

For the record, I am a libertarian centrist. I just want to never see or hear from the government, have no interference in my life at all as long as I am not hurting anyone or anything and to be left alone. I'm only taking an interest in this because i'm looking at a budding authoritarian regime setting itself up for total control over our lives on one hand and on the other hamfistedly destroying all of the qualities that made us one of the better countries in the world.

If we ever manage to put a stop to this nonsense and regain control of our lives then I will go back to minding my own business and living in the woods.
 
#69
For myself in Canada, what vexes me is that the current Canadian Tories who adopt policies of the New Democratic Party (Canada's socialist party since the 1960s) that the NDP held in the 1980s is now so "far right" and "white supremacist" that I just feel like dropping my trousers around my ankles and pressing my ass to the window of their opinions. If you make legitimate concerns unrespectable, don't be surprised if unrespectable candidates wind up in Parliament.
Justin Trudeau is the most cringey public figure that I have ever seen. Canadian politics is weirder than ours but you have the saving grace of being able to say "**** it" and disappear into the bush. We cant do that here.


I mean come on, even the Indian PM does not dance in public like that, especially on a state visit. I would think this bloke was a twat if I was on holiday with him but he is supposed to be the PM. His policies are even worse. The worlds first SJW PM.
 
#70
Yes but the definition of the word "Conservative" is not the same as their ideology which is supposed to be free market capitalism. If that were the yard stick then what would we make of the Labour party? A party akin to a woman in state of child birth? perhaps but i dont buy the other literal sense of the word that would imply that they intend to carry out some labour and work for a living. The current labour party seem hellbent on taking the hard cash from the well off and giving it away to those who have failed to make a success of themselves.

She seem more concerned with social engineering and staying in the European Union at all costs than just getting on with capitalism.

She wants curbs on executive pay, worker on the board and lets not forget that she is allowing nearly 300,000 economic migrants with dubious backgrounds in every year and shows no signs of stopping.

She is the most left wing PM that we have had in 40 + years.

It's fine if we disagree, this is my current opinion of her though.

For the record, I am a libertarian centrist. I just want to never see or hear from the government, have no interference in my life at all as long as I am not hurting anyone or anything and to be left alone. I'm only taking an interest in this because i'm looking at a budding authoritarian regime setting itself up for total control over our lives on one hand and on the other hamfistedly destroying all of the qualities that made us one of the better countries in the world.

If we ever manage to put a stop to this nonsense and regain control of our lives then I will go back to minding my own business and living in the woods.
Your first statement is factually wrong, so the rest of your argument falls over. There is no guaranteed connection between Conservatism and Free Market capitalism. Conservatism is basically a Steady as she goes pragmatism, rather than wild and radical changes.
In reality, a full free market capitalism would be a highly revolutionary step, as much as full on Communism would be, and repellent to a Conservative.

You are presuming that "Conservatism" is the current post Thatcherite, and neocon status quo.

The One Nation Toryism of Benjamin Disraeli was quite "liberal" by modern standards.

The so called modern Conservatism, which in America really is "neoconservatism" is a much more reactionary (and far less socially engaged) thing than old Benjamin would have recognised.

Although he would have been baffled that we were still refighting Free Trade.
 
#71
Your first statement is factually wrong, so the rest of your argument falls over. There is no guaranteed connection between Conservatism and Free Market capitalism. Conservatism is basically a Steady as she goes pragmatism, rather than wild and radical changes.
In reality, a full free market capitalism would be a highly revolutionary step, as much as full on Communism would be, and repellent to a Conservative.

You are presuming that "Conservatism" is the current post Thatcherite, and neocon status quo.

The One Nation Toryism of Benjamin Disraeli was quite "liberal" by modern standards.

The so called modern Conservatism, which in America really is "neoconservatism" is a much more reactionary (and far less socially engaged) thing than old Benjamin would have recognised.

Although he would have been baffled that we were still refighting Free Trade.
Neoconservatives are not the flavour of the month at this point in time. They do have influence but not the extent they did 16 years ago.
 
#73
Neoconservatives are not the flavour of the month at this point in time. They do have influence but not the extent they did 16 years ago.
The Tea Party Neocons have been completely eliminated by the fiscally insane Trumpeters.
It appears that Conservative ideology is soluble in racism and cheap populism
Who would have thought?
 
#74
Justin Trudeau is the most cringey public figure that I have ever seen. Canadian politics is weirder than ours but you have the saving grace of being able to say "**** it" and disappear into the bush. We cant do that here.


I mean come on, even the Indian PM does not dance in public like that, especially on a state visit. I would think this bloke was a twat if I was on holiday with him but he is supposed to be the PM. His policies are even worse. The worlds first SJW PM.
Isn't that a bit of cultural appropriation going on there
 
#76
It appears that Conservative ideology is soluble in racism and cheap populism
Who would have thought?
That is a brilliant metaphor.

To be fair, many have played that game.

The thing is (reaching back to A-level chemistry) racism and populism are but catalysts not he reaction process - and reversal back to the normal state is usually a lot longer than the process we have seen over the past couple of years.
 
#77
Care to bring out some examples?
Question 1 :What was the hallmark of Tea Party policy?
Answer: Fiscal restraint. Small Government. Avoidance of Government deficit.

Question 2: What is the hallmark of Trumponomics?
Answer: Reckless spending, enormous deficits, reduced tax income on the rich, fraud and money laundering.

Question 3: Under what circumstances should a Tea Party Republican support Trump?
Answer: Some millennia after Hell freezes over.

Question 4: Why therefore,did Tea Party Republicans abandon their deeply held principles?
Answer: Because Trump ran on a populist and racist platform that appealed to the lowest common denominator, AND (with Russian help), won.

Question 5: Can deeply held Conservative principles be thrown away in an instant to win the favour of a corrupt demagogue with the temporary ear of the sheeple?
Answer: No, because then they are not principles. They are merely affectations. Glitter on the turd of something else.

Question 6 : What colour was the President that the Tea party opposed most loudly?
Answer: Not White.

Question 7: So, if the Tea Party are NOT actually Conservatives, just loud mouthed hypocrites who don't like brown people, what difference is there between them and Trump?
Answer: Not a lot.

Ergo, the Tea Party could either be true to their principles, and fought Trump tooth and nail over his economic insanity OR simply be a collection of eloquent slow burn bigots.

Since they haven't uttered a peep as Trump sets fire to public finances for a generation, we can only conclude that they were happy with a WHITE, corrupt, criminal, sex offending fraudster with links to Russian intelligence doing such thing to their deepest beliefs, OR they were frightened of racist and bigoted trolls being set on them by Russia/Trump.

So, we can see that The Tea Party Republicans were in fact like tea. Add a little hot water, and they go limp, and their true bitter colours leach out, leaving an unpleasant residue.
 
#78
Your first statement is factually wrong, so the rest of your argument falls over. There is no guaranteed connection between Conservatism and Free Market capitalism. Conservatism is basically a Steady as she goes pragmatism, rather than wild and radical changes.
In reality, a full free market capitalism would be a highly revolutionary step, as much as full on Communism would be, and repellent to a Conservative.

You are presuming that "Conservatism" is the current post Thatcherite, and neocon status quo.

The One Nation Toryism of Benjamin Disraeli was quite "liberal" by modern standards.

The so called modern Conservatism, which in America really is "neoconservatism" is a much more reactionary (and far less socially engaged) thing than old Benjamin would have recognised.

Although he would have been baffled that we were still refighting Free Trade.
Classical Liberalism as you know is not the same as modern liberal policy.

I dont see where I am factually wrong and nothing that you have written so far has changed my mind on my initial assessment of her.

I know what you are saying about the steady as she goes policy but that is not an ideology and what do you do when the landscape has shifted further and further to the left, keep on going and try not to change anything?

That general policy only works when things are more or less in a place that most people are content with. She clearly no conservative in anything other than name.

Jacob Rees Mogg, aside from being a disappointing party man seems much closer to the Disraeli flavour of conservatism and he was recently called a nazi by that utter cretin, David Lammy but can you imagine an opposition MP both calling a tory a nazi and getting away with it even 10 years ago?

I digress, various other political commentators have reasoned that TM is closest in ideology to european christian democrat like Merkel. I expect there are plenty of krauts arguing about weather she is or is not a real christian democrat too.

We can disagree, I dont mind but feel free to teach me something new or change my mind if you can be bothered
 
#79
Classical Liberalism as you know is not the same as modern liberal policy.

I dont see where I am factually wrong and nothing that you have written so far has changed my mind on my initial assessment of her.

I know what you are saying about the steady as she goes policy but that is not an ideology and what do you do when the landscape has shifted further and further to the left, keep on going and try not to change anything?

That general policy only works when things are more or less in a place that most people are content with. She clearly no conservative in anything other than name.

Jacob Rees Mogg, aside from being a disappointing party man seems much closer to the Disraeli flavour of conservatism and he was recently called a nazi by that utter cretin, David Lammy but can you imagine an opposition MP both calling a tory a nazi and getting away with it even 10 years ago?

I digress, various other political commentators have reasoned that TM is closest in ideology to european christian democrat like Merkel. I expect there are plenty of krauts arguing about weather she is or is not a real christian democrat too.

We can disagree, I dont mind but feel free to teach me something new or change my mind if you can be bothered
Why do you think Conservatism has, or needs, an ideology? If it is a pragmatic party of keeping what has traditionally worked and not chasing after weird radical ideas (like Whiggery) it is Conservative, in the truest sense of the word.

Refusing to adapt to a shifting political landscape and keeping true to those principals is again, Conservative. That doesn't mean trying to go back to some mythical paradise when the sun never set on the Empire, and Johnny Foreigner knew his place. That is not Conservative, it is at best reactionary, and at worst lunacy.

I have met Rees-Mogg, and didn't think much of him. He is, I think, a pastiche of a High Tory of the 18th century, an arrogant and over privileged creature who thinks he has a divine right by birth. I worked briefly (thankfully) for Lammy and thought less of him. I don't consider either fit to run the Commons tea fund. I am fairly sure Left wing Labourites have been calling rich Tories Nazis for decades, they certainly did when I was a student many years ago.

I would argue that the Christian Democrat parties were a post war attempt to try and restore some Church based moral and ethical standards to a Europe that had lost its way under the dictatorships of the Fascists and Communists.

May is a clergymans daughter, so I can see where they would have common ground, but I would not say that they are the same thing at all.

As I have said, she is closest to the socially paternalist Conservatism of the 1880's, which was often led by the religious reformers.

You might argue that the Christian Democrats share some of her mind space, but not that she is one of them.
 
#80
Those of us who are old enough will remember the 1980s, the last time the left went mental under a hard left Labour leader - Michael Foot.

In many ways, it was worse then, at least in terms of sheer nutterism. Labour councils in London proposed lesbian-only housing estates. Police were banned from council buildings. Allegedly, black coffee was banned for being racist and no government building was complete without a nuclear free zone officer on about £50k.

The 80s truly were the golden age of loony leftery.

Ultimately, it was Labour MPs who recognised that their party was unelectable and they plunged daggers into their own leadership. Even commie dinosaurs like Dennis Skinner tired of opposition and voted for Tony Blair.

In other ways, it's worse now. Look behind the bufoonery of Abbott and Corbyn(stello) and you find a capable and determined political machine with a well formed plan to take and retain power.

Entryism by the far left into constituency Labour parties means that moderate Labour MPs are being deselected or driven out. The hard left is firmly in charge of grass roots Labour and it will soon have control of the Parliamentary party too. No chance of a sensible leader being elected any time soon. When Jeremy leaves, another useful idiot will be installed to replace him.

Labour are wiping the floor with the Tories in the media - especially social media. Not a day goes by without a dose of Twitter outrage from Diane Abbott. I can't remember the last time I read anything critical about Labour from the Tories.

The general level of political violence is increasing. Anybody who disagrees with left wing doctrine is either a racist or a fascist and is therefore fair game. Commenting on the fad for chucking milkshakes at Tommy Robinson, Dan Hannan recently observed that the difference between "punch a fascist" and "shoot an MP" is merely a matter of the degree of violence. I don't ever remember Labour activists travelling to the Tory conference to spit on people.

If the current Labour incarnation get their foot in the door of power, either by facilitating Brexit for Theresa May or forming a coalition government, god help us. They will flood the country with enough impoverished, Labour voting immigrants to allow them to turn Britain into Venezuela while retaining power.
 

Similar threads


Latest Threads

Top