CS abuse claim

#1
Seeings how our mod has decided to lock the previous thread (go bless his soul). I wish to ask why the fuck he feels the need to not only censor a subject of discussion that is currently in the media but also black ops a thread that might actually sway whatever discussion into a positive light?


Reality pill.


A tabloid has reported a matter. We are discussing it. Fact. I believe any discussion on this matter will highlight that they (the media) are talikng out of their hoops.



If a moderator cannot use his abilities other than 'locking' then they need to re assess their ability to moderate. The ultimate action is to lock or delete a thread. There are several actions in the arsenal prior to that. Moderator; Its not your website, the situation will be talked about. Get a fcuking grip FFS.
 
#2
Think he's locked it because we all have mouths that are not only larger than our brains but can also act without the intevention of that poor, often underused, gray matter!

People will tell their stories and engage in the 'this is nothing, I know a bloke who ........." and before you know it the stories in the press grow in stature (and BS quotient), diversions and excesses are included as part of the scenario and the fact that investigations are ongoing means that the waters are muddied and nobody wins (except naff papers and reporters looking for another cheap hit).

The fact is that to discuss material or other, associated, material (factual or otherwise) is effectively subjudice and therefore should not be engaged in. The Mod is correct in locking any thread that clouds investigations (if you know something pertinent to the issue then contact the investtigators) or discusses that which is undergoing the due process of law. This is not discussion but dangerous subversion.

Wait until the results are published Flash and we can discuss this in full (I'll have done my CS gas bit as well by then so can talk about my experiences along with the others).

P
 
#3
The Lord Flasheart said:
Seeings how our mod has decided to lock the previous thread (go bless his soul). I wish to ask why the fuck he feels the need to not only censor a subject of discussion that is currently in the media but also black ops a thread that might actually sway whatever discussion into a positive light?


Reality pill.


A tabloid has reported a matter. We are discussing it. Fact. I believe any discussion on this matter will highlight that they (the media) are talikng out of their hoops.



If a moderator cannot use his abilities other than 'locking' then they need to re assess their ability to moderate. The ultimate action is to lock or delete a thread. There are several actions in the arsenal prior to that. Moderator; Its not your website, the situation will be talked about. Get a fcuking grip FFS.
Well said My Lord. It is becoming more frequent that threads are being locked or removed for silly reasons. The Supreme being of Arrse needs to re - think on some of the Moderators on this Website.
 
#4
I think Padre has hit the nail on the head. The "debate" going on the media is journalist led and therefore speculation. Debate on Arrse will be soldier led (in the main) and therefore very different. Its in everyone's interests that the investigation is not influenced by posts on arrse or posts being (mis)-reported in the papers. Its not uncommon for court cases to have reporting restrictions placed on them, I see no reason why arrse shouldn't be similar. Arrse is a public forum, its not the same as chatting about it down the pub with your mates. The Mods have acted responsibly.
 
#5
Padre said:
People will tell their stories and engage in the 'this is nothing, I know a bloke who ........."
Not all of us would agree with locking the thread or waiting til MoD makes official announcement when it is already being widely reported. Most journos will make up a story if need be whether something like the above is mentioned or not. Of course, I know Arrse has been quoted in the press and the odd senior MoD circles before, where has it happened where such a tale hindered an investigation or was included in a media report? If it is a rule of the forum, as PTP has said, perhaps a sticky should be made on this part of the board with a link to the occurrence.
 
#6
There is also a risk of self censorship. If one looked through old arrse threads, I bet one would find many a story that would give more weight to some journo's headline pressured outrage. If there always is a deafening wall of silence in response to potential non events/storms in teacups like this, then the journos will fish for more. They have no moral compass.

Example in point: Mrs sbp was shocked at a recent expose by the forces favourite(durch). Pointed out that 15 years ago in order to leave the same room, I had to do pull ups on the bar in the ceiling, sing "always look on the bright side of life" and express support for everton (don't follow footie at all).

Also pointed out the journo who wrote said expose had been a trend/group chaser at school who had done CCF because he didn't want to do the social services option of helping grannies.

With the subjective nature of the report and reporter put in perspective, the story is now a non event at home.
 
#7
Additionally we should not forget that whilst it is the users that make the site work, it is the ARRSE organsation that created the means and oils the thing whenever it either falls over, needs maintenance or starts to damage itself. This latter element is key to us remaining as a credible site that can be ustilised by all, Jounos, walts, Serving Soldiers and Veterans. I agee with the padre, we do have a tendency to always "go one better". Someone somewhere may jump on these stories as fact, when actually they are only based on fact.

Bottom line is that moderators protect the system and protect it on our behalf.

now, when I was in Cyprus in 1976 we didnt just do CS testing, we .............(edited for common sense!!)
 
#8
was thinking about this story this morning.
and this occured to me. I for one think it time we stoped using CS in gas chamb.......... sorry, respirator testing facilities, & started using laughing gas instead! :D
it would make the whole subject of NBC drills much more fun!

what about enternox (or is it internox, well, something like that) then? the gas they give to women in labour, makes you feel p###ed for a short time apparently! :D
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#9
I think we have to be careful as what we say may prejudice a investigation. The press is split into two camps at the moment one that welcomes a need for rough men to do work on our governments behalf. The other camp unfortunately would like to demonise us. Remember Journos dont go after stories for pure fun, they go after stories that can be lucrative financially and career wise. "Tommy this and Tommy that" springs to mind to quote Kipling.
The general public has no understanding of what life is like in the armed services at present and there is a village mentality in the media at present, the latest piece of gossip always end up being embellished.

So guys if you do have stories that you can swing the lamp to and sit down on a sandbag, think before speaking out.
There will always be someone on the lookout for a next story, if some of the practices that are used in training are deemed as barbaric the next nig/crow that comes out of training may have missed this experience and cost men there lives. Remember that some of the training we recieve is the best in the world and is also covered under the OSA.

Genuine abuse does not belong and there are channels now in place to deal with it, Not the ARRSE forum.

Nuff Said

Armadillo
 
#10
What happens if something is said here, from someone conected to the investigation?

That is then used in court, and Skews the verdict. That's then going to open a whole can of worms.
 
#11
Outstanding said:
Additionally we should not forget that whilst it is the users that make the site work, it is the ARRSE organsation that created the means and oils the thing whenever it either falls over, needs maintenance or starts to damage itself. This latter element is key to us remaining as a credible site that can be ustilised by all, Jounos, walts, Serving Soldiers and Veterans. I agee with the padre, we do have a tendency to always "go one better". Someone somewhere may jump on these stories as fact, when actually they are only based on fact.

Bottom line is that moderators protect the system and protect it on our behalf.

now, when I was in Cyprus in 1976 we didnt just do CS testing, we .............(edited for common sense!!)
so... in an effort to deny our tendencies and be more credible, we all shut up and toe a partyline? or to use that awful business analogy, ignore "the elephant in the room" that this story will be more hyped by silence than by comment. This approach does however avoid the more pertinent amd important point of overstretch within training establishments.
 
#12
At the end of the day, "character building" experiences are going to be a thing of the past due to this new fangled technology.

Don't mis-understand me, I have received my fair share of "mistreatment" and "bullying" in the army but.... I'm still here and I've survived all the places I went to.

If the press wants us to die in battle cos we "can't hack it" then let them carry on, that's the way I look at it and that's a rather true account of the "softness" of our younger fellows sadly.

Thank you Sun, Record, Mail and cohorts you are making this country defenseless (and you can't spell)!
 
#13
This site is really going down the pan. If I want to read a load of ill informed tat I'll pick up a newspaper. If I want to know what's happening I come here. This subject is in the public domain. If an informed comment is likely to prejudice an enquiry then fine, delete it. But adding generally held knowledge to the debate is surely legitimate. After all, enough of you have done the respirator stuff and laughed about it.

"Make it short, make it snappy, make it up". (Old media saying).

C
 
#14
The Lord Flasheart said:
Seeings how our mod has decided to lock the previous thread (go bless his soul). I wish to ask why the fuck he feels the need to not only censor a subject of discussion that is currently in the media but also black ops a thread that might actually sway whatever discussion into a positive light?


Reality pill.


A tabloid has reported a matter. We are discussing it. Fact. I believe any discussion on this matter will highlight that they (the media) are talikng out of their hoops.



If a moderator cannot use his abilities other than 'locking' then they need to re assess their ability to moderate. The ultimate action is to lock or delete a thread. There are several actions in the arsenal prior to that. Moderator; Its not your website, the situation will be talked about. Get a fcuking grip FFS.

In my opinion flashy correct me if I am wrong but there are two sides to every story and everyone deserves a fair hearing .
Yes we all have opinions from all different angles but may be we should wait a little while first
 
#15
Flashie is 100pc spot on. The mods are getting far too touchy feely. This incident is in the public domian, and this is at the last time of checking a (fairly) free country. It is only right and proper that this incident is discussed as it is something that almost every single one of us has experienced (being gassed) The Mods should be monitoring, but to lock and delete threads is draconian and very unwieldy.
 
#16
civvy said:
This site is really going down the pan. If I want to read a load of ill informed tat I'll pick up a newspaper. If I want to know what's happening I come here. This subject is in the public domain. If an informed comment is likely to prejudice an enquiry then fine, delete it. But adding generally held knowledge to the debate is surely legitimate. After all, enough of you have done the respirator stuff and laughed about it.

"Make it short, make it snappy, make it up". (Old media saying).

C
I can't agree that the site is going down the tubes but I would if people started talking up situations or saying silly things that could be taken (both in and out of context) to show the British Forces in a bad light. If you want to really know what's happening, be there! But as you, I and many others can't we speculate and ask the wrong questions of the right people at the wrong time (now) and place (here).

Generally held knowledge can be skewed by inference, ill-informed comments and general hyperbole. Adding knowledge to any debate is generally worthwhile except when that debate should not be happening becuase of investigations and the like in other places. The very fact that this site is placed in the public domain shows that we (arrsers) have nothing to hide and have nothing in act or intent that is contrary to the rule of law (civil or military) or the good standing of the British Forces or this nation. The very fact that this is public domain means that anything written may be taken out of context. It means that anyone who contributes may write things that are prejudicial to the reputation of the Army or its members (past and present) without censorship. This is where of necessity Mod's come in. We write without realising that we damage others, ourselves and the army at times. We must realise that, despite the zeitgeist regarding freedom and censorship and the right to speak, that not everything we say is beneficial.

Wait until this matter is settled. No matter what you say here I will bet a pound to a glow in the dark staue of the Holy Mother that the only stuff written here on this subject that will influence debate and newspaper articles is the stuff that will get the British Forces further pilloried.

Pax guys - watch what the enemy does and make sure you don't give him an inch.

P
 
#17
smallbrownprivates said:
[so... in an effort to deny our tendencies and be more credible, we all shut up and toe a partyline? or to use that awful business analogy, ignore "the elephant in the room" that this story will be more hyped by silence than by comment. This approach does however avoid the more pertinent amd important point of overstretch within training establishments.
That is not what was meant and I suspect you know it. I do believe that many ignorant people read this site and believe all they see. Loose or ill considered comments can portay a false sutuation, or could in extremis land someone in the cart. There are many instances of old incidents being resurected for investigation.

Let it be.
 
#18
Get off your box Padre, its sunday but I'm not in church

This is about pointless censorship not CS

The topic would be todays chip wrappers if PTP hadn't started locking threads. I'm struggling to find threads on skiffing and w_nking over tampon instructions due to the random boo hiss to censorship threads popping up!!

three pages of "Cpl X blew CS up my arrse" and "In my day" stories and everyone would have got bored

Arrse needs to realise its not that important in the scheme of things, similer to certain mods.

Another point is that arrse is patently a commercial animal now and all publicity is good publicity, watering down of comments, locking threads, reducing the "hot topics" actually takes away the appeal of ARRSE
 
#19
surely the responses from squaddies (ex and serving) regarding their own cs/resi test experiences are valid? and if the meeja and others are reading this site, then that will give them the other side of the coin? extreme (and occasionally stupid) responses to threads are always going to happen regardless of topic.
 
#20
Hi Gimp,

Thanks for the thought but it's not a box that I've brought in for no reason. I have been involved in situations where people's views in a format similar to this have been damaging to others. Sadly the very words that others used, thinking they were offering support, damned those under scrutiny!

The Mod's do what they do to ensure that the forum they're on remains active. I don't think that PTP is wrong in this but I do think that perhaps it should be spelt out (if it isn't already) that discussing topics under investigation should not happen!

I don't know about this forum being commercial and what that means for the forum, censorship, etc. but you can always enlighten me (perhaps a pm would be better). Thanks for your comment though - make me think wider on this very difficult topic. Censorship is always painful - I know I've had a few of my contributions deleted because the way they read wasn't the way I intended them to be and my humour isn't always welcome;-)

Thanks again,

P
 

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