Cry Freedom, mince pies and Chrimbo Trees - Moron’s charter?

[Arte_et_Marte]

Even that won't fix things. You could potentially eradicate the virus in the UK by doing so for 3 weeks, possibly longer. What then happens is you have a population still vulnerable. Once the lockdown ends and in comes someone from abroad, asymptomatic but infected? We go back to square one.

I don't think we'll ever stop it completely as its in the wild now. Do what Auz and NZ did and it'll simply come back when you open the borders again no matter how careful you are. That's my biggest misgiving with the more draconian lockdown measures - permanent damage for a very short term gain. Most likely we'll have annual vaccinations similar to the flu jab, limited outbreaks on occasions similar to what happens with swine flu, MERS, SARS etc which will be contained locally, and in a year or two it'll be normal jogging.

Sadly I have to agree with you both.

The good news is I'm alright.

 

[Dan Gleebles]

I don't think we'll ever stop it completely as its in the wild now. Do what Auz and NZ did and it'll simply come back when you open the borders again no matter how careful you are. That's my biggest misgiving with the more draconian lockdown measures - permanent damage for a very short term gain. Most likely we'll have annual vaccinations similar to the flu jab, limited outbreaks on occasions similar to what happens with swine flu, MERS, SARS etc which will be contained locally, and in a year or two it'll be normal jogging.

It won't be normal jogging for the businesses going down the sh1tter.

 

[Charlie4]

Act as if you have the disease and behave in a way that spreads it as little as possible whilst going about your business.

Oh dear, they have really got to you haven't they?

You cannot act as if you have a virus. You either have it, or you don't.

If you have it, you will be at home in bed, and not going about any business.

If you are that scared, lock yourself away until you die of old age without coming into contact with anyone. But those of us who wish to get on with our lives should be allowed to do so.

Accepting any risks involved, if a Landlord wishes to open his pub, and customers, again accepting any risk involved, wish to enter said pub, that is an agreement between two willing parties. No one else need stick there nose in.

 

[cowgoesmoo]

It won't be normal jogging for the businesses going down the sh1tter.

True, which is why i'm against the more draconian lockdown measures. But the tier restrictions, social distancing, travel bans etc will all disappear in short order. Hopeful there is enough capital and demand left in the system that new businesses will be quick to spring up to fill the gaps.

 

[Dalef65]

I think that the decision to keep places of education open was purely a decision based on economics.

During the Great first Lockdown nothing opened, the majority of the country stayed at home. yet something went wrong, because the covid virus is still with us. Coming to the end of the Second (pathetic) lockdown we are now in a position of still having the virus but most people are at work to stop the economy tanking, if we were forced into a third, proper lockdown, the kids would be at home meaning the parents couldnt both go to work.

It's a balancing act for the Government. We have to have a functioning country, which means the movement of people, if we lockdown totally again, the virus might (emphasis) be stopped, but at the expense of the economy. So work continues, which means the kids cant be at home.

For what it's worth I have two observations.

Firstly, I work in construction which was allowed to continue duiring the First Great lockdown, our van was the just about the only vehicle on the road, it was astonishing. During this current lockdown it appears to be a normal day on the roads, traffic snarled up as usual.

Secondly, I live in Lincoln a very small city, we have no anti-vaxxer demos, no rioting, no masive street parties yet we are about to hit Tier Three. London is going into Tier Two. Tier Two! It is this sort of blatently wrong, being a bit easier on the capital, that makes me believe that this is now more of a Political Pandemic and not a Medical one.

I gave you a thumbs up for that.
You could also infer from your post that lockdowns don't really work.

Ok perhaps there was a justification for the first lockdown, in that (arguably), we didn't know what the virus was capable of, and there was (again arguably), the possibility of hospital capacity being overwhelmed.
So on that basis the first lockdown could be justified. Save the NHS and all that.

However, once we got through that first phase, and things started opening up, predictably the virus numbers increased, and it became increasingly clear that the hospitals were not, and are not going to be, anywhere near overwhelmed.

We now find ourselves in this limbo state of not quite locking down, not quite opening up, and not really knowing what we're doing as a country and not knowing why exactly we're doing it or not.

To stay in this limbo state, seemingly on a perpetual basis, with the vague aim of "getting the numbers down", when the way those numbers are crunched is questionable at best, is a serious indictment of the current Government.

I voted Conservative at the last GE, and could not, and cannot countenance the other lot, but ....the current administration led by a PM who looks increasingly like Bambi on ice in the face of this crisis, dancing to the tune of an overly vocal scientific/public health/NHS lobby, and aided by a compliant media is shocking in the way it is taking the country down the toilet.

The advent of the vaccine might just save BJs premiership, but he's seriously gone down in my estimation here, and mid to long term he has to go.

 

[Arte_et_Marte]

I gave you a thumbs up for that.
You could also infer from your post that lockdowns don't really work.

Ok perhaps there was a justification for the first lockdown, in that (arguably), we didn't know what the virus was capable of, and there was (again arguably), the possibility of hospital capacity being overwhelmed.
So on that basis the first lockdown could be justified. Save the NHS and all that.

However, once we got through that first phase, and things started opening up, predictably the virus numbers increased, and it became increasingly clear that the hospitals were not, and are not going to be, anywhere near overwhelmed.

We now find ourselves in this limbo state of not quite locking down, not quite opening up, and not really knowing what we're doing as a country and not knowing why exactly we're doing it or not.

To stay in this limbo state, seemingly on a perpetual basis, with the vague aim of "getting the numbers down", when the way those numbers are crunched is questionable at best, is a serious indictment of the current Government.

I voted Conservative at the last GE, and could not, and cannot countenance the other lot, but ....the current administration led by a PM who looks increasingly like Bambi on ice in the face of this crisis, dancing to the tune of an overly vocal scientific/public health/NHS lobby, and aided by a compliant media is shocking in the way it is taking the country down the toilet.

The advent of the vaccine might just save BJs premiership, but he's seriously gone down in my estimation here, and mid to long term he has to go.

An excellent post, perfectly shadowing my thoughts .

 

[Bob65]

When the first video hit Tiktok of nurses doing well rehearsed dances in empty wards that should have been the end of it.

 

[Nimbus]

Accepting any risks involved, if a Landlord wishes to open his pub, and customers, again accepting any risk involved, wish to enter said pub, that is an agreement between two willing parties. No one else need stick there nose in.

If you chose to ride a hooker bareback, you’re accepting the risks, just don’t go running to the clap clinic, or complain because your Mrs cut your bälls of when she get a dose...

 

[Charlie4]

If you chose to ride a hooker bareback, you’re accepting the risks, just don’t go running to the clap clinic, or complain because your Mrs cut your bälls of when she get a dose...

Absolutely right, I totally agree.

An arrangement between two consenting adults, nobody else need get involved.

You accept the risks when you sit down and drink a bottle of whisky, if you choose to, I'm not going to tell you not to do it, it's your life and your choice.

 

[Blogg]

Is it safe to imagine.....Mum involves a return trip 2.5 hrs each way?

A bit less...

 

[re-stilly]

Lockdowns a farcical, purely because this virus is now so widespread it is impossible to contain. You have a lockdown, rates go down end lockdown..

One person infects 2 people without knowing it and 2 months later your are in another lockdown, this cycle now repeats ad infinitum.

This is obviously unsustainable , now you are left with 2 choices:
1. Compulsory vaccination
2. Say we have done everything we can, you know the risks get on with life.

 

[StBob072]

Surely the whole "pub serving food" business is more to do with the relative takings and therefore the economy?

A small group of people sitting down to a meal and a couple of drinks would generally be expected to spend more than a couple of people meeting for a pint or two.

 

[Blogg]

Surely the whole "pub serving food" business is more to do with the relative takings and therefore the economy?

A small group of people sitting down to a meal and a couple of drinks would generally be expected to spend more than a couple of people meeting for a pint or two.

Depends. My local is a bit of a gastro pub and has decided to go with a 12 course tasting menu.

The ‘Substantial Meal’ Clause in New Coronavirus Regulations Is Deeper Than It Seems

Local COVID-19 restrictions stipulate that pubs "operating as restaurants" can remain open, and that affects whether or not they can claim government job support

london.eater.com

 

[Joker62]

I think you'll find the 26th is a Saturday.

Well done bullet, only an hour later than the first post to state that, DARTT?

 

[Chef]

Surely the whole "pub serving food" business is more to do with the relative takings and therefore the economy?

A small group of people sitting down to a meal and a couple of drinks would generally be expected to spend more than a couple of people meeting for a pint or two.

Profit margins being what they are it's the people drinking the pints that make the money for the average pub. The food draws them in.

 

[Joker62]

Surely the whole "pub serving food" business is more to do with the relative takings and therefore the economy?

A small group of people sitting down to a meal and a couple of drinks would generally be expected to spend more than a couple of people meeting for a pint or two.

A prime example, take Spoons, a normally wet driven pub that sells food. They'll be opening on Thursday to a very limited audience, the regulars won't buy food just so they can have a drink, they'll get it from Tescos/Sainsburys/other supermarket. I've been told by an employee of Spoons via an email that came down fro HO and briefed to the staff that even a bacon roll constitutes a "substantial meal", how this works out remains to be seen, I can't see many of the old blokes buying a bacon roll with every pint. The rules as they stand are that drinks are served with the meal and when the meal and drink is finished, off you toddle unless you buy another "substantial meal". Other pubs are going to try "buy a bottomless chilli/pasta dish/curry to try to circumvent the "leaving when the meal is finished" plan.

 

[Wee Hawken]

The advent of the vaccine might just save BJs premiership, but he's seriously gone down in my estimation here, and mid to long term he has to go.

I don't think anything will save him now. Unless he can pull off some kind of Brexit deal in the next 32 days.

 

[Ortholith]

A prime example, take Spoons, a normally wet driven pub that sells food. They'll be opening on Thursday to a very limited audience, the regulars won't buy food just so they can have a drink, they'll get it from Tescos/Sainsburys/other supermarket. I've been told by an employee of Spoons via an email that came down fro HO and briefed to the staff that even a bacon roll constitutes a "substantial meal", how this works out remains to be seen, I can't see many of the old blokes buying a bacon roll with every pint. The rules as they stand are that drinks are served with the meal and when the meal and drink is finished, off you toddle unless you buy another "substantial meal". Other pubs are going to try "buy a bottomless chilli/pasta dish/curry to try to circumvent the "leaving when the meal is finished" plan.

I'd have tried getting everyone's round in with a pizza. Order 4 pints and a pizza, everyone has a couple of slices while enjoying pint, repeat 3 more times until everyone has ordered. Presumably there's a limit on the number of drinks that can be ordered with one meal to counter that plan.

 

[CaptainCowpat]

Huge swathes of the area I live in have infection rates less than half of those in London (and trending downwards), yet are getting put into tier 3. Probably because the economic impact will be minimal here on the grand scheme of things yet astronomical in London, and as London subsidises the rest of the UK probably more essential to keep it going.

The majority of the tier stuff is to do with hospital capacity more than any other factor. Most are full/nearly full and Emergency Department/ICU are on chinstraps and winter hasn't even started yet. It's based on if the local hospitals are full, they can't cope with the normal winter pressies that are coming nevermind COVID patients.

Right now they're full and that's ok, the fun and games are about to start when the spike hits from winter/Christmas shenanigans they will start to make real triage decisions like back in round 1; ie we will have to pull that granny off life support and out this new 39 year old in their place because of survival odds. Instead of 2 nurses to each intense care bed it's now going to be 4 beds for each nurse.

It's never been about saving lives it's been about preserving hospital capacity. London has a lot more ICU capacity currently so the tier is lower.

The potential saving grace is the vaccine getting into care homes and the most vulnerable from next week. This is probably be offset by the Christmas stuff.

Not sure why this isn't being given out by the PM etc but based on how shoddy this second lockdown has been I'd guess they realise now that those who don't care will carry on not caring anyway and those that do will keep being careful.

 

[Cold_Collation]

A prime example, take Spoons, a normally wet driven pub that sells food. They'll be opening on Thursday to a very limited audience, the regulars won't buy food just so they can have a drink, they'll get it from Tescos/Sainsburys/other supermarket. I've been told by an employee of Spoons via an email that came down fro HO and briefed to the staff that even a bacon roll constitutes a "substantial meal", how this works out remains to be seen, I can't see many of the old blokes buying a bacon roll with every pint. The rules as they stand are that drinks are served with the meal and when the meal and drink is finished, off you toddle unless you buy another "substantial meal". Other pubs are going to try "buy a bottomless chilli/pasta dish/curry to try to circumvent the "leaving when the meal is finished" plan.

Aye. Going back to our PMs the other day, the local brewery here will be serving food at its tap room. It’s not going to be a meal with every round.

This is truly farcical. And I don’t blame the businesses for trying to work round it all.