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Croydon shooting

(Waves hand in the air)Oh, me sir! I know this one!

- T&C's that are not an adequate compensation for the increasingly stressful nature of the job(or Job).

- Previous cuts to manpower means those still left are increasingly understaffed and overworked.

- Senior ranks with relatively little experience on the front line, so to speak, who's only real concern is their own advancement. And thus have no interest in supporting the coppers they command.

- Politicians who pay lip service to the police, but are happy to evacuate themselves all over the rank and file from a great height the moment it become politically expedient. Why yes, Mrs May, I was looking at you.

- A perversion of the the ideal of, "Equality", to the point that rank and file coppers find it difficult to do their jobs if the offenders belong to a certain demographic. Rotherham is, of course, the perfect example.

- Steadily diminishing respect from the public, especially the section of it who believes the law doesn't apply to them and that coppers are walking punch bags who should just take anything thrown(sometimes literally)at them.

Did I miss anything? ;)
may.jpg
 
That's the chap Razor gangs ruled the streets but even in the violence of pre-war years, one man stood out
snip "Sir Percy Sillitoe, as he came to be titled, will forever be recognised for his role as Chief Constable of Glasgow.
Yet, when he was recruited to the job in 1931, he already had a great track record of dealing with gangs in the steel-hard city of Sheffield.
In Glasgow, Sir Percy set about hiring the toughest men he could find as beat bobbies.
Scores and scores of big, hardy men were recruited from the Highlands and other rural areas, given basic training, a uniform and told to mix it with the gangs every chance they got. Most relished the work."


Can you imagine any C. Constable today doing that, the "woke" would be having a fit & Matrix Chambers getting even richer!!

Stilltoe was responsible for a number of innovations, including the introduction of radios. Before then, coppers had to pop into the nearest TARDIS to contact the station.

He went on to become DG of MI5. Unfortunately, his reputation was somewhat tarnished by the defection of Burgess and Mclean to the Soviets.
 
We can sleep safely in our beds, knowing men like this stand ready to defend us. :)
tenor.gif


Look Croydon was a khazi when I lived there in the early 2000s.

I cannot remember the time span, whether it was week, fortnight or month; but I knew it was time to move when I got involved in my third off-duty robbery (and I tried to mind my own business).

But with the reduction in capacity and capability - in particular to "understand", I don't know why anyone is surprised.

And by understand, I don't mean some sociology exercise; I mean local intelligence units knowing individuals, groups or patches.

I doubt there is the sort of Borough Intelligence Unit that would have a "Collator PC", or a team of PCs using the BIU to justify getting on Crime Squad or detective training* by being thief takers.

It starts, for example, knowing Prominent Nominals and having the time to turn people over - and having to prove yourself to get on the CID.

All of which I think is a way that has gone and is not to return.

*Edited to add, or TSG. I knew some great boys and girls who went onto TSG using that route, as I used it into a cheap suit.
 
(Waves hand in the air)Oh, me sir! I know this one!

- T&C's that are not an adequate compensation for the increasingly stressful nature of the job(or Job).

- Previous cuts to manpower means those still left are increasingly understaffed and overworked.

- Senior ranks with relatively little experience on the front line, so to speak, who's only real concern is their own advancement. And thus have no interest in supporting the coppers they command.

- Politicians who pay lip service to the police, but won't hesitate to evacuate themselves all over the rank and file from a great height the moment it become politically expedient. Why yes, Mrs May, I was looking at you.

- A perversion of the the ideal of, "Equality", to the point that rank and file coppers find it difficult to do their jobs if the offenders belong to a certain demographic. Rotherham is, of course, the perfect example.

- Steadily diminishing respect from the public. Especially the section of it who believes the law doesn't apply to them and that coppers are walking punch bags who should just take anything thrown(sometimes literally)at them without attempting to defend themselves.

Did I miss anything? ;)
Close but no cigar.
Number one reason is you may have to work with @wetsmonkey
 
tenor.gif


Look Croydon was a khazi when I lived there in the early 2000s.

I cannot remember the time span, whether it was week, fortnight or month; but I knew it was time to move when I got involved in my third off-duty robbery (and I tried to mind my own business).

But with the reduction in capacity and capability - in particular to "understand", I don't know why anyone is surprised.

And by understand, I don't mean some sociology exercise; I mean local intelligence units knowing individuals, groups or patches.

I doubt there is the sort of Borough Intelligence Unit that would have a "Collator PC", or a team of PCs using the BIU to justify getting on Crime Squad or detective training* by being thief takers.

It starts, for example, knowing Prominent Nominals and having the time to turn people over - and having to prove yourself to get on the CID.

All of which I think is a way that has gone and is not to return.

*Edited to add, or TSG. I knew some great boys and girls who went onto TSG using that route, as I used it into a cheap suit.

Lothian and Borders polis had a dedicated CID unit who specialised in dealing with house breaking. They knew all the local scroats, and were so effective the number of burglaries dropped dramatically. If a house was done over, the CID had a very good idea who had done it and who he'd flogged the stuff to.

When all the regional forces were merged into Polis Scotland, the specialist CID unit was disbanded and it's members posted to other stations. The result? Burglaries went up and conviction rates went down. I think they eventually saw sense and reformed the unit.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Look Croydon was a khazi when I lived there in the early 2000s.
Trust me, nothing's changed, if anything it's got worse.
 
Kept my Dad in a job down the nick when he was On Duty GP.
Sabres & stilettos were popular. Especially with the Partick Cross mob.
Ones he hated were the toothbrushes with two closely parallel razors melted in prison style.
Impossible to stitch cleanly it seems.

Not a surprise re the stiletto. It's a great secondary knife.
 
Percy Sillitoe was Chief Constable of the City of Glasgow Police from 1941-1943.

We are often told how his tough no-nonsense policing ended gang violence in Glasgow.

So there was little or no problem with gang violence in Glasgow from 1943 onwards, was there?
If you read a couple of Posts onwards , you will see I posted an apology for crap analysis of a fair point due to intoxication.


I'm not going to apologise for getting pissed.
 

TamH70

MIA
Stilltoe was responsible for a number of innovations, including the introduction of radios. Before then, coppers had to pop into the nearest TARDIS to contact the station.

He went on to become DG of MI5. Unfortunately, his reputation was somewhat tarnished by the defection of Burgess and Mclean to the Soviets.
That was more down to Philby or am I remembering my Ben Macintyre wrongly?
 
That was more down to Philby or am I remembering my Ben Macintyre wrongly?

Not sure myself, but as Stillitoe was Director General at the time, the buck, and the blame, ultimately stopped with him. An investigation concluded that MI5 had been, "unaware and slow to act".
 
That's the chap Razor gangs ruled the streets but even in the violence of pre-war years, one man stood out
snip "Sir Percy Sillitoe, as he came to be titled, will forever be recognised for his role as Chief Constable of Glasgow.
Yet, when he was recruited to the job in 1931, he already had a great track record of dealing with gangs in the steel-hard city of Sheffield.
In Glasgow, Sir Percy set about hiring the toughest men he could find as beat bobbies.
Scores and scores of big, hardy men were recruited from the Highlands and other rural areas, given basic training, a uniform and told to mix it with the gangs every chance they got. Most relished the work."


Can you imagine any C. Constable today doing that, the "woke" would be having a fit & Matrix Chambers getting even richer!!
Very good.

I notice Glasgow still had razor gangs through the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s though.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Not as such: the felon was notorious at the time and had several convictions to his name already. I believe the story was something along the lines of the DI and others being tasked to patrol the march in civvies.

Apparently, laddo recognised George just as George was closing in on him. The little scroat jumped into the air, the better to slash down on him.

As you can see, George was almost successful in deflecting the blow (though he required stitches to an arm injury later) whilst reaching inside of his coat for his 'peg' so as to batter the wee shite to effect a lawful arrest.

I'm more impressed with the retention of the Capstan Full Strength during this event.
Any more detail on this?
 
Can you even imagine Assistant Commissioner Fairbairn making it past the first use of force complaint!

iu


Officially:


"Sir, I approached the suspect from behind and placed my hand over his mouth. I then cut his throat with my dagger",

"And you really think this constitutes a Reasonable use of Force, Assistant Commissioner?!"

"Well, neither myself nor any of my lads were injured by the bugger, sir. Seems bloody reasonable to me..."
 
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If you read a couple of Posts onwards , you will see I posted an apology for crap analysis of a fair point due to intoxication.


I'm not going to apologise for getting pissed.
If we were all to apologise for posts written when we were pissed half the threads would be taken up with mea culpas every morning.

I was not taking exception to anything you said in particular, simply questioning the perceived wisdom, one that I myself used to buy into, that Sillitoe cleared up the gang and knife problem in Glasgow, the merest examination of that claim would see it rapidly fall apart.
 
I was not taking exception to anything you said in particular, simply questioning the perceived wisdom, one that I myself used to buy into, that Sillitoe cleared up the gang and knife problem in Glasgow, the merest examination of that claim would see it rapidly fall apart.

He didn't

He did however, break the back of the razor gangs of '30's Glasgow.

These gangs would make re-appearances throughout the 50's / 60's and perhaps even into the very early 70's before finally disappearing for good.

The knife problem was a separate issue from the razor gangs.
 
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