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Croydon shooting

With long enough arms, you can pull an item clear from your waistband, and push it sideways so that it is pointing either sideways/forward, next to your torso. Sideways seems easier, and you can see what you are aiming at. It isn't easy however but the whole situation is v unusual.

I once saw a prisoner who was slim and flexible pull his knees to his chest and bring his cuffed wrists past his feet to his front. He was not trying to escape. He was laughing at his prank on the arresting officer.
 
Sky News at 10 pm led with the murder of the Sergeant.

The running order on BBC at 11 pm was:
Trump nominates attractive catholic mother of 5 to Supreme Court
Ruth Bader Goblin lies in state
Updated numbers of coronavirus in the USA
(at this stage, I actually clicked to make sure I hadn’t stumbled upon a specialist USA bulletin).
Fourth item: the murder of the New Zealand born officer.

With all the pressure the BBC is presently under, I find this quite a remarkable editorial judgement.
And headline news on R4 this morning.

ETA: I've been informed his surname is pronounced Rā tànà
 
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Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
Perhaps a change in procedures

I think the procedures are already in being but their use is frowned upon in case it upsets certain people.
 
Horrible to hear of the officer killed in Croydon.
Over on my side of the pond there have been 43 police officers murdered in the past 37 weeks. A number of my friends are or were police officers (most retired, some active). I have been seeing their facebook memorial posts. I used to click the sad icon, now I click the angry icon that the BLM/AntiFa people have apparently declared open hunting season on cops. The 43 number murdered does not, of course, include the officers stabbed or shot who survived. I have no idea of the number in that category.

I know some in the UK will think "lax gun laws". Reading the stories of the officers' murder one constant seems to be the murderer has prior convictions and it is impossible to get a firearms permit with a conviction on the record.

I do wonder how the detained individual got into a custody area with a weapon on his person. I would expect that a search would have been done prior to entry. At least here in the US even police officers have to check weapons at the entry before entering prisoner custody areas. Is there concern about frisking people now.
Here in the US stopping and frisking an individual is legal but many cities, in response to BLM, have ordered police not to stop and frisk people, cities like New York, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Portland Oregon. One result has been an increase in shootings of civilians also in cities like New York, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles.... .I should note that the above named cities and their states all have very strict gun laws.

Some of the police shootings here do not grow out over a conflict or an arrest but are just out and out assassinations of police. In Los Angeles last week two sheriffs deputies were shot sitting in their cruiser near a transit station. The shooter approached from behind and shot both in the head and chest. Both deputies were Latino/Latina. The female deputy, with a through and through wound to jaw and tongue, dragged her badly bleeding partner to cover and applied a tourniquet saving his live. Brave lady.

Reminds me of an officer that I did know, Sean Collier of the MIT PD in Cambridge MA was approached from behind while sitting in his cruiser and shot in the back of his head on April 15, 2013, by one of the marathon bombers as they made their escape. They wanted to steal Sean's gun but could not remove it from a retention holster.
That is shocking and yet, if you go by our National Broadcaster’s coverage, your Country is currently experiencing Police brutality and oppression of the poor, black underclass. There is no balanced reporting whatsoever.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
The main news in this morning's 3.00 A.M. BBC news briefing on 't telly was President Trump nominating a "shock, horror" conservative woman to fulfil the late Ginsburg woman's Supreme Court seat. Then footage of said Ginsburg woman lying in state. Then something equally non-relevant to the UK.

Guess when they talked about the dead police officer?

That's right, you win an Internet Cookie for "never". He got the courtesy of a scroll at the bottom of the screen.

Hmm.

I am surprised there was any mention of the one who was murdered when I consider the "fluffiness" of those who were at the BBC.
 
Sky News at 10 pm led with the murder of the Sergeant.

The running order on BBC at 11 pm was:
Trump nominates attractive catholic mother of 5 to Supreme Court
Ruth Bader Goblin lies in state
Updated numbers of coronavirus in the USA
(at this stage, I actually clicked to make sure I hadn’t stumbled upon a specialist USA bulletin).
Fourth item: the murder of the New Zealand born officer.

With all the pressure the BBC is presently under, I find this quite a remarkable editorial judgement.

It made page 30 of 254 in the only Torygraph newspaper after page after page of shite on Covid. At least the picture was front page
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
With respect, the news at 0300 is the BBC World Service, and Trump's nomination to the Supreme Court is of considerably wider interest than the sad event in Croydon.

As I no longer involve myself with the BBC I will take your word for granted.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
I once saw a prisoner who was slim and flexible pull his knees to his chest and bring his cuffed wrists past his feet to his front. He was not trying to escape. He was laughing at his prank on the arresting officer.
Likewise, but the newer stiff cuffs were much more secure especially if used in the rear stacked position.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
How often is that sort of training delivered?

If I was in a job when I was routinely required to physically restrain an uncooperative subject I'd want training several times a year on optimum techniques (and which of those are Home Office approved) which would involve a few days belting targets to get an idea of striking a resisting target.

I'm assuming the actual training is nowhere near that level?
I think if memory serves it might have been twice a year, definitely no more than that.
 
Someone mentioned on this thread that special constables had made the arrest and I have a strong feeling that their inexperience is a likely cause of what on the face of it is a search failure with the most horrendous of consequences which seem almost unthinkable.
How do you know they were inexperienced?

As for “how can you miss a gun” comments, short of doing a strip searched on the streets which is not permitted, you will miss things. You’d be surprised what people can conceal and where they can conceal it.
 
Likewise, but the newer stiff cuffs were much more secure especially if used in the rear stacked position.
Rear stack stopped being taught years ago in my force. Only two options now. Front stack or rear back to back.
Officers get two days OST a year, which includes First Aid, fitness test, water safety, dog safety, searching, relevant legislation, defensive tactics, baton, cuffs, sprays..........basically not enough. And the physical side is watered down to avoid inconvenient injuries.
I am lucky on my team because we train as a team and the PTIs let us get on with it. So we spend two days knocking lumps out of each other.
 
Rev Tucker and others who complain about the police could do worse than read and understand what “policing by consent” means

“It should be noted that it refers to the power of the police coming from the common consent of the public, as opposed to the power of the state. It does not mean the consent of an individual. No individual can chose to withdraw his or her consent from the police, or from a law.”

We, the law-abiding public, consent to the police upholding the law and protecting us from those who break the law.
 
I’ve been retired for some time now but as a copper who worked in and around that area it is awful news.
Cops on this site and ex cops know the goings on and how things work, and as @sittingstress said now is not the time to start throwing questions around.
I think I am genuinely shocked by this awful news.
As I said on another thread RIP.
A close friend of mine is a copper in Lambeth/ Southwark, I know that he's in and out of Croydon if his custody units are full.

First thing I did on hearing the news was to ring him, didn't care if he was asleep off a night shift tbh.

I couldn't do that job, I haven't always had a good time with the police myself, but they do have a massive amount of respect from me. Every time they put on that uniform and step out of the nick they are putting their lives on the line.

RIP.
 
How do you know they were inexperienced?

As for “how can you miss a gun” comments, short of doing a strip searched on the streets which is not permitted, you will miss things. You’d be surprised what people can conceal and where they can conceal it.
I recall being shown how to frisk people in basic training. As a demonstration, one guy was kept behind whilst we went on a fag break. When we returned, one of us was told to frisk him. He was patted down and nothing found. Then the instructor gleefully revealed the knife, detonators and grenade hidden upon the volunteer. Best bit was when he pulled a belt of 7.62 link from around the guy's waist. Amazing what you can hide in a woolly pully.
 

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