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Croydon shooting

A guy shot a police officer. He turned the gun on himself and so far has survived. Not exactly a whodunnit case is it? But of course he will get a fair trial, if and when he’s charged.
I’m guessing he wasn’t a pillar of the community, or someone who volunteered to work for charities.

An aspiring rapper, who loved his mum (didn't know his dad), played football, and was just turning his life around.
 
An aspiring rapper, who loved his mum (didn't know his dad), played football, and was just turning his life around.
Don’t forget budding entrepreneur (drug dealer)
 
Sky News at 10 pm led with the murder of the Sergeant.

The running order on BBC at 11 pm was:
Trump nominates attractive catholic mother of 5 to Supreme Court
Ruth Bader Goblin lies in state
Updated numbers of coronavirus in the USA
(at this stage, I actually clicked to make sure I hadn’t stumbled upon a specialist USA bulletin).
Fourth item: the murder of the New Zealand born officer.

With all the pressure the BBC is presently under, I find this quite a remarkable editorial judgement.

That's just normal BBC bias, how many Tory government have they lived through and carried on jogging like this
 

Mattb

LE
I truly hope that there will be some good for the police as an outcome for this murder (I know there are some who will bleat about him not being found guilty yet) but, unfortunately those who could make a difference ie MPs, senior police, the church will not. I feel instead the police will still be expected to put up with being shot, stabbed, spat on, insulted, etc. because we do not have anyone really willing to take on these unlawful elements who have no time for the police and (what I would term) the rules of society.
What is even worse is the fact that unfortunately this crime will be forgotten by all but a few within a few days and nothing will happen as a result.
What could they change?

Perhaps a change in procedures might prevent this very precise set of circumstances from happening in the future, but what stops the next one from killing a police officer before they're arrested next time? Or just shot sitting in their car such as happened to PC Rathband? You can't physically stop every single possible murder from taking place.
 

Londo

LE
What could they change?

Perhaps a change in procedures might prevent this very precise set of circumstances from happening in the future, but what stops the next one from killing a police officer before they're arrested next time? Or just shot sitting in their car such as happened to PC Rathband? You can't physically stop every single possible murder from taking place.
Unfortunately
 
What could they change?

Perhaps a change in procedures might prevent this very precise set of circumstances from happening in the future, but what stops the next one from killing a police officer before they're arrested next time? Or just shot sitting in their car such as happened to PC Rathband? You can't physically stop every single possible murder from taking place.
Change in procedures? The procedures are there. It’s just too politically unpalatable to acknowledge the need for them, and to support their usage.
 
How often is that sort of training delivered?

If I was in a job when I was routinely required to physically restrain an uncooperative subject I'd want training several times a year on optimum techniques (and which of those are Home Office approved) which would involve a few days belting targets to get an idea of striking a resisting target.

I'm assuming the actual training is nowhere near that level?
It used to be a day, twice a year before I left 5 years ago. Half a day of that, for one of the days was a First Aid Refresher.
 
(don't know when they replaced the chain linked ones)
They replaced them about 23 years ago. Most officers retained the chain linked ones as they were better for handcuffing the wife or girlfriend to the bedpost. Lots of ladies being taken into A&E's with sprained or broken wrists when the new ones came in.
 

TamH70

MIA
The main news in this morning's 3.00 A.M. BBC news briefing on 't telly was President Trump nominating a "shock, horror" conservative woman to fulfil the late Ginsburg woman's Supreme Court seat. Then footage of said Ginsburg woman lying in state. Then something equally non-relevant to the UK.

Guess when they talked about the dead police officer?

That's right, you win an Internet Cookie for "never". He got the courtesy of a scroll at the bottom of the screen.

Hmm.
 

Mike Barton

On ROPS
On ROPs
From the Gruniad.

The suspect had been flagged over concerns about both rightwing and Islamist indoctrination, sources said, but nothing of concern was found. Mental health is also a consideration in the inquiry, with the suspect understood to have a learning disability – though whether this was a factor is yet to be determined.

Full house.

Pretty sure a history of heavy marijuana use will also be indicated, as Peter Hitchens will no doubt ascertain.
 
Best not to speculate. If anyone missed anything for any reason they will carry that with them forever.
We've all feked up somewhere along the line---- most times we've got away with it. There for the grace................
 
Horrible to hear of the officer killed in Croydon.
Over on my side of the pond there have been 43 police officers murdered in the past 37 weeks. A number of my friends are or were police officers (most retired, some active). I have been seeing their facebook memorial posts. I used to click the sad icon, now I click the angry icon that the BLM/AntiFa people have apparently declared open hunting season on cops. The 43 number murdered does not, of course, include the officers stabbed or shot who survived. I have no idea of the number in that category.

I know some in the UK will think "lax gun laws". Reading the stories of the officers' murder one constant seems to be the murderer has prior convictions and it is impossible to get a firearms permit with a conviction on the record.

I do wonder how the detained individual got into a custody area with a weapon on his person. I would expect that a search would have been done prior to entry. At least here in the US even police officers have to check weapons at the entry before entering prisoner custody areas. Is there concern about frisking people now.
Here in the US stopping and frisking an individual is legal but many cities, in response to BLM, have ordered police not to stop and frisk people, cities like New York, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Portland Oregon. One result has been an increase in shootings of civilians also in cities like New York, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles.... .I should note that the above named cities and their states all have very strict gun laws.

Some of the police shootings here do not grow out over a conflict or an arrest but are just out and out assassinations of police. In Los Angeles last week two sheriffs deputies were shot sitting in their cruiser near a transit station. The shooter approached from behind and shot both in the head and chest. Both deputies were Latino/Latina. The female deputy, with a through and through wound to jaw and tongue, dragged her badly bleeding partner to cover and applied a tourniquet saving his live. Brave lady.

Reminds me of an officer that I did know, Sean Collier of the MIT PD in Cambridge MA was approached from behind while sitting in his cruiser and shot in the back of his head on April 15, 2013, by one of the marathon bombers as they made their escape. They wanted to steal Sean's gun but could not remove it from a retention holster.
 
According to BBC Breakfast, the suspect's hands were cuffed behind his back when he shot Sgt Ratana.
To do that he must have had the gun cocked and loaded stuffed down his bum crack. Grabbed it while sitting down waiting to be booked in, stood up, turned around and fired it with it resting on his lower back while bent over. Its the only way I think it could be done. You have little movement once you are cuffed to the rear as any officer will tell you from doing 'Officer Safety Training'.
 
The main news in this morning's 3.00 A.M. BBC news briefing on 't telly was President Trump nominating a "shock, horror" conservative woman to fulfil the late Ginsburg woman's Supreme Court seat. Then footage of said Ginsburg woman lying in state. Then something equally non-relevant to the UK.

Guess when they talked about the dead police officer?

That's right, you win an Internet Cookie for "never". He got the courtesy of a scroll at the bottom of the screen.

Hmm.
The news was the second story on yesterday's 'PM' on Radio 4 - behind Covid. Someone thought that an issue receiving blanket coverage since March was still more important.
 
To do that he must have had the gun cocked and loaded stuffed down his bum crack. Grabbed it while sitting down waiting to be booked in, stood up, turned around and fired it with it resting on his lower back while bent over. Its the only way I think it could be done. You have little movement once you are cuffed to the rear as any officer will tell you from doing 'Officer Safety Training'.
With long enough arms, you can pull an item clear from your waistband, and push it sideways so that it is pointing either sideways/forward, next to your torso. Sideways seems easier, and you can see what you are aiming at. It isn't easy however but the whole situation is v unusual.
 

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