Cross Channel Migrant Issue

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I’m pretty sure that none of the personnel rescued by BULW were allowed ‘tween decks. They were “accommodated” on the fo’c’sle, flight deck or in the vehicle hangar, both of which are pretty large. The pictures you can google search show that.

The only time yuo put civvies in cabins etc is when evacuating UK Entitled People in a NEO situation - at which point you cram stow them, and hope none of them get sea sick.
They were largely kept in the hangar.
I've never stepped foot on Bulwark so unfamiliar with layout. How many elec sockets you got in various sizes on a T23 though?? Tea urn by the Air office being the primary one...then the rest...
 
The primary issue is HMG hasn't strictly enforced the deportation of illegals, this has been the case since the Blair years.
There's a huge difference between genuine refugees (who're not crossing Europe) and the illegal economic migrants.

IF HMG took to deporting illegals, refusing benefits for arrivals and detaining them in offshore camps or detention ships unless they make a valid asylum claim then the message that the UK will just boot them out would spread very fast. The people traffic business model would be shot to shreds rapidly. It works for the Australians, no reason it won't work for the UK.
You are Chris Grayling and I claim my £50 million ferry contract.
 

endure

GCM
Also - no member of an RN ops room team can respond to a mayday call without permission of the CO.

My understanding of that (and I could be wrong) is- if you respond-you are committed under maritime law.
If you hear a mayday you're committed. If you choose not to respond you ought to think about getting a job ashore.

After all one day it may be you calling mayday...
 
If you hear a mayday you're committed. If you choose not to respond you ought to think about getting a job ashore.

After all one day it may be you calling mayday...
the smugglers had it down pat.....
sail out towards the waiting muli National flotilla, maKe a mayday phone call, as soon as the nearest ships comes close, capsize the boat.
collect your warm blanket And free ride to EUtopia
 

syrup

LE
Also - no member of an RN ops room team can respond to a mayday call without permission of the CO.

My understanding of that (and I could be wrong) is- if you respond-you are committed under maritime law.

Apart from the various operational freqs we'd be using- we also monitor 121.5/243 mhz. Quite often heard aircraft 'chatting' on guard... and even joined in- giving them local weather details QNH etc. Quite against rules but- eased boredom.
From what I've read elsewhere they simply get so far out and ring 999.
If they sent a mayday call out then presumably their mates on the French ship who are their to make sure they get into our waters safely would have to pick them up.
 
If you hear a mayday you're committed. If you choose not to respond you ought to think about getting a job ashore.

After all one day it may be you calling mayday...
Hearing a mayday and responding to one are separate entities. Are you ex-RN? If you are, and worked in an Ops dept you would know.
There are set procedures for responding. Not responding does not mean its igniored. Hypothetical situation - HMS Bellthronk is enroute to an ASW action on a given area. Mayday heard on Ch16 of a fisherman with an engine fire...Do you realistically think...with varying circs...the warship could easily divert?

*I'm not very clued up on maritime law - there are a few here who are, and am happy to be corrected.
 

endure

GCM
Hearing a mayday and responding to one are separate entities. Are you ex-RN? If you are, and worked in an Ops dept you would know.
There are set procedures for responding. Not responding does not mean its igniored. Hypothetical situation - HMS Bellthronk is enroute to an ASW action on a given area. Mayday heard on Ch16 of a fisherman with an engine fire...Do you realistically think...with varying circs...the warship could easily divert?

*I'm not very clued up on maritime law - there are a few here who are, and am happy to be corrected.

No I'm ex merch whose job revolved around SOLAS.

I'm not up to speed on RN abbreviations but I assume that 'ASW action' means anti sub action of some sort which implies that we're at some sort of war state.

As we're not at war then I believe that SOLAS applies in the channel. You might not like the fact that immigrants are crossing the channel but the law requires you to rescue them
 
No I'm ex merch whose job revolved around SOLAS.

I'm not up to speed on RN abbreviations but I assume that 'ASW action' means anti sub action of some sort which implies that we're at some sort of war state.

As we're not at war then I believe that SOLAS applies in the channel. You might not like the fact that immigrants are crossing the channel but the law requires you to rescue them
Which is an argument for someone of higher rank than I was, and paygrade to address.

Similar circs but..."Russian Frigate in territorial waters...RN scrambled".

What do you do?
Can you see why reponding to a distress call is at discretion of the skipper- in the RN? I'm not arguing this point- THAT IS HOW IT ACTUALLY IS!

There are suitably qualified people to argue this point further with you on here.
People who "drive" war canoes for example. I'll leave it to them. I've made it clear I'm not fully converse with the minutae myself.
 

endure

GCM
Which is an argument for someone of higher ank than I was, and paygrade to address.

Similar circs but..."Russian Frigate in territorial waters...RN scrambled".

What do you do?
Can you see why reponding to a distress call is at discretion of the skipper? I'm not arguing this point- THAT IS HOW IT ACTUALLY IS!

Sorry - I misunderstood you. Responding to a distress call is always the responsibility of the master/ captain/skipper/ whatever but maritime law requires them all to offer all possible assistance regardless of the situation of those in distress.
 
Sorry - I misunderstood you. Responding to a distress call is always the responsibility of the master/ captain/skipper/ whatever but maritime law requires them all to offer all possible assistance regardless of the situation of those in distress.
There are 'get out clauses'. I think operational warships probably tick a few of those boxes too.

As you can imagine- an RN skipper is rarely actually monitoring any radio freq himself. It will be bridge and Ops room doing so.
 
good. And they should have no entitlement to healthcare either.
From the link . . .

"The UK government, in response to a petition urging it to “Stop all benefits to illegal immigrants completely”, said in 2015: “Illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers are not entitled to, and do not get, benefits from the UK’s welfare system”.

Refugees, on the other hand, can claim benefits, but no more than any British person. Refugees are defined as asylum seekers whose asylum application has been successful.

A House of Commons report states that they are entitled to “social security benefits and tax credits on the same basis as UK nationals.”

But these benefits are typically capped well short of £29,900. For instance, the maximum amount a single person living outside London can receive in benefits is capped at £13,400 a year, or £15,410 if they live in London.

This rises to £20,000 a year for couples or single parents with children living outside London, and to £23,000 a year in London".
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
The people smugglers here are the corrupt officials and civil servants who not only allow this trade, but facilitate it.

They've criminally conspired to create an industry, and no doubt many of them benefit from it financially too.

How many of Serco's £2.9 billion do you think it would have taken to grease the wheels?

Fundamentally the border force etc are given money and resources to protect our shores, in fact it has been used to encourage people smuggling at thousands of pounds per head.

Fire and prosecute those responsible. Both currently and historically.

The people of this country have a right to security.
 
The people smugglers here are the corrupt officials and civil servants who not only allow this trade, but facilitate it.

They've criminally conspired to create an industry, and no doubt many of them benefit from it financially too.

How many of Serco's £2.9 billion do you think it would have taken to grease the wheels?

Fundamentally the border force etc are given money and resources to protect our shores, in fact it has been used to encourage people smuggling at thousands of pounds per head.

Fire and prosecute those responsible. Both currently and historically.

The people of this country have a right to security.
Er...Border force (from my understanding anyway) appear to have been created - then deliberaltely underfunded-in order to facilitate this mess.

@History_Man @LeoRoverman
 
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Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Er...Border force (from my understanding anyway) appear to have been deliberaltely underfunded-in order to facilitate this mess.

@History_Man @LeoRoverman
Fewer taxis? Fewer hotels?

That would reduce it all surely?

Fundamentally they are given money and resources to protect our borders. That those resources and money are being misused to escort and ferry illegals in is corruption pure and simple.
 
Fewer taxis? Fewer hotels?

That would reduce it all surely?

Fundamentally they are given money and resources to protect our borders. That those resources and money are being misused to escort and ferry illegals in is corruption pure and simple.
I'm not arguing with you!
The trouble is though...something like...The EU decide they need RN intervention (This is all just my opinion, and based upon experience btw)...Then ask Cameron. He knows he won't get public cooperation. Need a 'heartstrings' aspect.
That's when the pictuires of that poor bugger 'baby Aylan' surfaced... along with further reports of his mother being found washed up on a beach 2 days later 200 miles away...in the Med...a non-tidal sea. Ocean/sea currents dont really work like that.
It got the Bien pensents of the UK suitably revved up though.....

And here we are...

Edit..my science knowledge could be way out. I will happily defer to better qualified... @NSP
 
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If we have warships deployed in the Channel Supporting civil powers, they will have to respond to any SOS.

This will not end well.
 
I’ll tell you exactly whats going to happen if RN vessels are deployed to blockade the channel.
A smugglers boat will be stage managed to ’capsize’ with dozens of women and kids aboard as it’s blocked in the full expectation some will drown and the watching media will crucify HMG and the Navy.
not only are people smugglers behind this, very media savvy open frontiers zealots are too.
Yep, I call that too. As soon as there's a death at sea it will be the evil RN in the headlines.

Anyone remember that 3 year old kid who washed up trying to come across from Turkey a few years back? Europe had a self flagellating meltdown, it went on for months.

Strangely, the Middle East and other places nearby didn't give a sh1t.
 
Fewer taxis? Fewer hotels?

That would reduce it all surely?

Fundamentally they are given money and resources to protect our borders. That those resources and money are being misused to escort and ferry illegals in is corruption pure and simple.
we are not serious, we do not make any serious effort to detain illegals.
i was on a ferry that was bum rushed by illegals. We were all told to stay put while the authorities dealt with the illegals Who were demanding they be let off, They got off, one of them simply dangled a baby over the side and said, Ramp down, or the baby goes for a swim, ramp came down, and as they trooped off, they were handed cards directing them to Lunar house. when we were let off, the exit was covered in the discarded cards.

all Migrant roads lead to the Channel. Anyone who travels around Europe knows this - The services leading up to the channel are frequently closed when the numbers go up. SOP is fill up 100 Kliks from the Channel, never leave your vehicle unattended, windows up and doors locked and don’t stop until you get to the dock gates.
 

NSP

LE
Which is an argument for someone of higher rank than I was, and paygrade to address.

Similar circs but..."Russian Frigate in territorial waters...RN scrambled".

What do you do?
Can you see why reponding to a distress call is at discretion of the skipper- in the RN? I'm not arguing this point- THAT IS HOW IT ACTUALLY IS!

There are suitably qualified people to argue this point further with you on here.
People who "drive" war canoes for example. I'll leave it to them. I've made it clear I'm not fully converse with the minutae myself.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I mean, it's not like you come up on VHF as HMS Whatever or USS Whoisit. It's "Coalition warship" or "NATO warship" or "Naval vessel off your port quarter."
 

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