Criticism of the United States

#2
This would fit in nicely in the Multinational HQ. The brits were kind enough to give us our own section of the website to discuss such issues
 
#3
"This would fit in nicely in the Multinational HQ. The brits were kind enough to give us our own section of the website to discuss such issues"
Yes please move this thread to Multinational HQ.

I'd like to have a rational discussion of the contents of this video. Evan presents a stinging and critical analysis of the United States that deserves consideration by our friends in Great Britain.

If you want to really understand what is wrong with the United States, watch this video.
 
#4
Crude, oversimplified, caracatured nonsense. If a liberal was to take the same approach, they'd be portraying all conservatives as neo-nazis.
 
#5
Dear friends over there ....

The danger of this thread is that people will see America as "One Nation, united ...etc" whereas, as you well know, Bostonians as as different from Arkies as Brits are from Chinese.

You are more regionally-different than a different thing. Wherever I go in your glorious country, you are "different". You have regional characteristics, politics and perspectives. Anyone stupid enouth to put all Americans under "one heading" is an idiot.

The weekend before last, She and I stayed in a Bed & Breakfast in Yorkshire. Nice, if expensive ... but that's not the point. The brochure, the web-site all said something about "Her", who admitted she was from the USA. And we were right ... Californian.

Straight after Easter, we're heading for VA for 3 weeks ... as we do every year. Different people, different values, different styles ... especially as you get closer to DC.

The problem with the World view of the USA is not the people ... it's the way it is presented by your Media and Government, who have to generate 24-hour noise on 3000 TV channels across 5 time zones [and indeed for the rest of the World, not that they count]. As a result you get meaningless dribble being transmitted as "The Voice of America", which I personally know it isn't.

On this occasion, my recommendation is "Kill the Messenger"
 
#6
blue_sophist said:
Dear friends over there ....

The danger of this thread is that people will see America as "One Nation, united ...etc" whereas, as you well know, Bostonians as as different from Arkies as Brits are from Chinese.

You are more regionally-different than a different thing. Wherever I go in your glorious country, you are "different". You have regional characteristics, politics and perspectives. Anyone stupid enouth to put all Americans under "one heading" is an idiot.

The weekend before last, She and I stayed in a Bed & Breakfast in Yorkshire. Nice, if expensive ... but that's not the point. The brochure, the web-site all said something about "Her", who admitted she was from the USA. And we were right ... Californian.

Straight after Easter, we're heading for VA for 3 weeks ... as we do every year. Different people, different values, different styles ... especially as you get closer to DC.

The problem with the World view of the USA is not the people ... it's the way it is presented by your Media and Government, who have to generate 24-hour noise on 3000 TV channels across 5 time zones [and indeed for the rest of the World, not that they count]. As a result you get meaningless dribble being transmitted as "The Voice of America", which I personally know it isn't.

On this occasion, my recommendation is "Kill the Messenger"
That was a great post blue_sophist

And on the subject of the video, I need to agree with crabtastic. I was liking it for maybe a minute, but when he said "Democrats aren't wrong on most issues, they're wrong on all issues" I knew I did not want to waste time watching the rest. America is a diverse, vast, and incredible country, the problem with it is that Partisan slobs like this guy (this includes the liberal version of guys like him) are trying to drive a wedge through our country and I don't like it a bit.
 
#8
crabtastic said:
Crude, oversimplified, caracatured nonsense. If a liberal was to take the same approach, they'd be portraying all conservatives as neo-nazis.
They do if you listen to inane ranting of such prominent liberals such as Alec Baldwin, Rosie, Michael Moore, Terry McAwful, Howard Dean, Sen. Murtha, etc....

Difference is this was said infront of the Heritage Foundation and not daily in the national print and on TV for a larger audience to see.

PS this is a response to your analysis of the video and is not intended to be a critic on what was said in the video. ;-)
 
#9
Whenever anyone starts out "the problem with America [or Britain, or Europe, or even little N. Ireland] is . . . " I cease hoping that any worthwile point will follow.

Individuals are often complex and multi-faceted, aggregations of people - provinces, nations, federations - are still more complex and multifaceted, and sweeping generalisations just won't do, especially if they masquerade as serious comment. Or serious comment delivered as "comedy", as here.
 
#10
The danger of this thread is that people will see America as "One Nation, united ...etc" whereas, as you well know, Bostonians as as different from Arkies as Brits are from Chinese.
Whilst that is a fair point I think most people are intelligent enough to know that in pretty well every nation on earth there is a range of opinion about all manner of things.

It is inevitable that people will generalise and by doing so ascribe attributes to individuals which some of them don't have. It doesn't mean that the entire argument is wrong or even flawed.

Incedentally, not a comment on the video. I watched the beginning of that and got bored.
 
#11
What a load of polarized sh!t. Totally useless in creating any sort of solution, and ignoring the shades and inflections of real people.

I have no time for demagogues, left-wing or right. They never help.
 
#12
ctauch said:
crabtastic said:
Crude, oversimplified, caracatured nonsense. If a liberal was to take the same approach, they'd be portraying all conservatives as neo-nazis.
They do if you listen to inane ranting of such prominent liberals such as Alec Baldwin, Rosie, Michael Moore, Terry McAwful, Howard Dean, Sen. Murtha, etc....

Difference is this was said infront of the Heritage Foundation and not daily in the national print and on TV for a larger audience to see.

PS this is a response to your analysis of the video and is not intended to be a critic on what was said in the video. ;-)
First of all, fcuk Michael Moore and Rosie.

Secondly, why is it that Conservatives seem to think that they are the ones under attack, when until 3 months ago, they were the ones in charge?

Thirdly I take issue with his idea that his position is based upon "rationality and morality" and that morality is absolute. Morality is a social construct, pure and simple and the idea that something is good because it is American is simply tautological. As for the idea that morality is fixed and absolute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWuXpfXSl5Y&mode=related&search=
 
#13
You guys have it more complicated, in that the difference between Republicans and Democrats is wafer thin.

Bit like Labour Bliar and the Conservatives, after he stole Conservative values and called them Labour values. But that will / may / should change.

We all have our views [some strongly held] but very few are amenable to "convenient labels", which is what the Media want so that overpaid journos don't have to think too much. Just feed a mash of "opinions" to channel KFC-K and the "Hog Market Weekly" and call it "analysis" ... Thousands will believe it.

At least the Washington Post is .... available on line.
 
#14
blue_sophist said:
You guys have it more complicated, in that the difference between Republicans and Democrats is wafer thin.

Bit like Labour Bliar and the Conservatives, after he stole Conservative values and called them Labour values. But that will / may / should change.

We all have our views [some strongly held] but very few are amenable to "convenient labels", which is what the Media want so that overpaid journos don't have to think too much. Just feed a mash of "opinions" to channel KFC-K and the "Hog Market Weekly" and call it "analysis" ... Thousands will believe it.

At least the Washington Post is .... available on line.
That's why I swore I would never join any political party. I also do not think of myself as liberal or conservative, but rather as me. People can decide for themselves whether I'm liberal or conservative. I'm more concerned about deciding what I believe than what it makes me.
 
#15
Oh, good grief. You are a well-adjusted normal person. Leave this site immediately!! ;-)

However, people like you [and me] do not make good Media copy. And therefore do not exist.
 
#16
blue_sophist said:
Oh, good grief. You are a well-adjusted normal person. Leave this site immediately!! ;-)

However, people like you [and me] do not make good Media copy. And therefore do not exist.
Fcuk those overpaid journo bloodsuckers
 
#17
That's one way of putting it.

Or ... "I do feel that American journalists do stretch the point when attempting to report on matters of substance." ;-)

Alternatively, the American people demand [or have been well-trained to demand] constant "noise" on TV and what passes for newspapers. Preferably relating to celebrities [whatever they are]. And Sports results ... not that 90% of the population have ever partaken in sport ... it's just a substitute for actually getting off their Taco Bell butts and doing any! Bless them!
 
#18
crabtastic said:
First of all, fcuk Michael Moore and Rosie.
No thanks I would rather soak mine in lighter fluid and set it ablaze. You have at the gopping munters.

crabtastic said:
Secondly, why is it that Conservatives seem to think that they are the ones under attack, when until 3 months ago, they were the ones in charge?
I have dropped out of ALL political parties, am now independent. My beliefs and desired direction for this country continue to fall squarely in the "conservative" realm of US political ideology as established by Reagan. Sadly, the Republican party has abandoned me and as such I abandoned it.

From that standpoint I can tell you that my values are constanstly under attack by mainstream new reporting. So yes I personally feel my values are under attack and have been for years.

BTW the Republican party was in power, not conservatives.

crabtastic said:
Thirdly I take issue with his idea that his position is based upon "rationality and morality" and that morality is absolute. Morality is a social construct, pure and simple and the idea that something is good because it is American is simply tautological. As for the idea that morality is fixed and absolute:
He has a valid point though, liberals tend to try and blur the lines of right and wrong. Case in point, there is very little condemnation in the US media over the treatment of the 15 RN and RM currently held by President Tom of Iran. Few refer to them as hostages and even fewer are screaming violation of the Geneva Convention while playing the video feed from Iran of them saying the US and UK need to leave Iraq....this from the same media outlets that wanted blood in the form admissions of wrong doing by high level US officials over Abu Ghrab and their jobs as well.

There is a bias and a lack of rationality in the liberal mind.
[/quote]
 
#19
Just sat through that interminable mytube speech. Can't believe that man is a professional comedian- he sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher!

Anyone who smiles at you when trying to convince you something is often lying.The smile shows embarrassment at breaking the taboo of lying.

However, the chap made some very good points, many of which can be exported to the UK. Especially the bit about state schools being indoctrination centres for liberals/lefties/progressives whatever they call themselves this week.
Here's hoping to an end to "showbusiness for ugly people" and a new start for reasoned debate by proven acheivers. Not holding my breath.
Just out of interest- does anyone here bother to vote? I don't.
Would a "none of the above" box alter that? It would for me.
 

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