Critically ill man 'former Russian spy'

The only one nervous on this thread appears to be you

That'd be nice. The use of nerve agent on UK soil. However, you come out with a bit of whining about the new US sanctions .....
The Trolls frantically search for an article that disagrees with the latest sanctions and find one. However, he's not talking about the sanctions for the use of CW, he's talking about interfering in the US elections:

It's about 'the DETER Act Bill':


He has previous: How Russian sanctions could cost US energy dominance
It's also nice to know why he is so business focussed: Press Releases

Subscribe to read | Financial Times
Now for the reasons behind the whining:

And the Bill hasn't even been passed yet:


Russia denounces new U.S. sanctions as illegal, mulls retaliation
The whining continues as the Kremlin says they're illegal, despite not having been passed yet and are 'mulling reprisals':
US sanctions over Salisbury poisoning 'unacceptable', Russia says
Peskov appears upset:


To summarise:
Sawaya isn't talking about the proposed CW sanctions
They're not law yet, there's 15 days or so for them to lay before possibly taking effect.
The Kremlin is upset by them.
You are desperately seeking something to show how bad the sanctions will be for American business and pick the wrong article.
My points: It is impossible to isolate Russia. Any new sanctions (along with imminent counter-sanctions) would hurt the West more. The cause of sanctions is irrelevant. Russia is designated as an enemy. The main guilt of Russia is its very existence.
The article backs some of my points.
 
How much oil and gas does the UK get from Russia. Now there's a question, how much does Russia export beyond gas, oil and tanks.

I think buying Russian oil & gas is a great idea & everyone should be doing it, rather than using up domestic sources.
That way, we'll still have plenty when Russia's reserves are gone...
 
My points: It is impossible to isolate Russia.
I never said it was, albeit Russia certainly seems to be making itself a pariah all by itself.
Any new sanctions (along with imminent counter-sanctions) would hurt the West more.
Based on what? An article taking about the DETER Act rather than what you thought they were and the latest CW proposed sanctions?
The cause of sanctions is irrelevant.
That's a pretty stupid sentence. Sanctions can be for a number of reasons, for attempted meddling in elections to use of CW, to stealing other people land. How about not completing actions that incur sanctions?
Russia is designated as an enemy. The main guilt of Russia is its very existence.
Oh dear, Russia as a victim again? Pick a new hobby horse Sergey. That one has been flogged to death.
The article backs some of my points.
Only if you change your points to reflect the articles points.

You said:
Let's return to the theme of the thread.
You then whine about sanctions in an article talking about DETER not the latest proposed CW ones, so nothing about the theme of the thread :rolleyes:
 
My points: It is impossible to isolate Russia. Any new sanctions (along with imminent counter-sanctions) would hurt the West more. The cause of sanctions is irrelevant. Russia is designated as an enemy. The main guilt of Russia is its very existence.
The article backs some of my points.
You need to get a good Russian investigative journalist on the case....sorry, my mistake, they've all been killed.
 
I just glimpsed a quote of one of KGB's ramblings.

I love the idea that the West would suffer more than Russia due to sanctions, you just couldn't make it up....... .oh, hang on!
 
Oops, I forgot to add:
In the trolls' pretend world whereby the West would suffer more than Russia from sanctions there is of course something important missing.

Russia is complaining and whining about the sanctions.

On the other hand, perhaps the sanctions should be MASSIVELY increased against Russia to include banning any car, van, lorry sales or parts sales as well as any tech, clothing or food.

Just think how happy the trolls would be then as in their minds Russia would be getting stronger while the West weakened
 
Not he fact that your country routinely ignores international norms. In the case of Salisbury, by murdering someone with a nerve agent. Sounds like you are going down the Russia as victim path again here.
Washington in the case with Iraq played Wolf who accused the Lamb in unspekable crimes while the Wolf was merely hungry and the only crime of the Lamb was its very existence.
But the same trick with the Bear will not work.
Namely the West violated international norms and and routinely ignores them.
Russia is designated in Washington as an enemy and any even absurd causes are and will be used to harm Russia's interests. Salisbury poisonings are such an absurd cause. In fact nothing has beenestablished. There are only allegations. But the guilty side is designated.
Namely you - the West - in fact unleashed the new cold war. OK, it is your choice.
You - the West - even don't try to win 'hearts and minds' in Russia. You try to punish the Russians as an enemy nation. But remember, we are ready for any war - cold, warm or hot.
 
I never said it was, albeit Russia certainly seems to be making itself a pariah all by itself.

Based on what? An article taking about the DETER Act rather than what you thought they were and the latest CW proposed sanctions?

That's a pretty stupid sentence. Sanctions can be for a number of reasons, for attempted meddling in elections to use of CW, to stealing other people land. How about not completing actions that incur sanctions?

Oh dear, Russia as a victim again? Pick a new hobby horse Sergey. That one has been flogged to death.

Only if you change your points to reflect the articles points.

You said:

You then whine about sanctions in an article talking about DETER not the latest proposed CW ones, so nothing about the theme of the thread :rolleyes:
You missed my point.
Russia was and is subjected to sanctions. Even existing ones hurts the West more than Russia. And any new sanctions that in fact would deepen existing ones would cause the same effect.
All existing and future anti-Russian santions include
- personal santions against some individuals (but not against Putin himself - why?). It is rather a symbolic measure.
- restrictions on export of dual purpose equipment. It is not a big problem and Russia could replay by own restictions in sales of missile engines, titanium
- sanctions against Russian companies and corporations. But it would cause symmetrict steps aagaists US corporations that extract good profits in Russia.
- restrictions in financial sphere. It is the most serious point but the restriction are in force during the last year without any visible effect.

So all arguments in the article are applicable to any new santions.

The most effective measure - embargo on all oil/gas sales from Russia is unrealistic and even is not beeing discussed.
 
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You missed my point.
Russia was and is subjected to sanctions. Even existing ones hurts the West more than Russia. And any new sanctions that in fact would deepen existing ones would cause the same effect.
All existing and future anti-Russian santions include
- personal santions against some individuals (but not against Putin himself - why?). It is rather a symbolic measure.
- restrictions on export of dual purpose equipment. It is not a big problem and Russia could replay by own restictions in sales of missile engines, titanium
- sanctions against Russian companies and corporations. But it would cause symmetrict steps aagaists US corporations that extract good profits in Russia.
- restrictions in financial sphere. It is the most serious point but the restriction are in force during the last year without any visible effect.

So all arguments in the article are applicable to any new santions.

The most effective measure - embargo on all oil/gas sales from Russia is unrealistic and even is not beeing discussed.
Fine one to talk about missing the point, liar.

Sanctions DON'T hurt the West more than Russia. Simply a lie.
We could be better off trading with Russia, in economic terms, yes.
But the point is not to be better off.
The point is to punish you lot for your criminal behaviour by accepting some economic sacrifice on our part for pain in yours.

We have not sanctioned Putin himself.
He is, God knows why, your Head of State. He even won an election once, although he has stolen a fair few afterwards.
We can, however, make it uncomfortable to be one of his associates.
Like the Mafiosi he is, he relies on a network of underbosses to work for him. If his stupidity and reckless behaviour makes life difficult for them, eventually they will let him sleep with the fish.
That eats away at his trust and control.

The appalling consequences of your counter sanctions have, err, not been noticed yet.
Frankly, you exist to supply raw materials to civilised nations.
You choose not to do so, fine.
See how long your tin pot fascist/gangster regime survives.
Civilisation got along without the Russians this long, we can do without you for a bit longer until you learn some manners.
Enjoy the Dark Age. This time, try to avoid the starvation and cannibalism.
 
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Washington in the case with Iraq played Wolf who accused the Lamb in unspekable crimes while the Wolf was merely hungry and the only crime of the Lamb was its very existence.
But the same trick with the Bear will not work.
Namely the West violated international norms and and routinely ignores them.
Russia is designated in Washington as an enemy and any even absurd causes are and will be used to harm Russia's interests. Salisbury poisonings are such an absurd cause. In fact nothing has beenestablished. There are only allegations. But the guilty side is designated.
Namely you - the West - in fact unleashed the new cold war. OK, it is your choice.
You - the West - even don't try to win 'hearts and minds' in Russia. You try to punish the Russians as an enemy nation. But remember, we are ready for any war - cold, warm or hot.
Oh, the liar is using whataboutery, and threats.
Nothing to see here, move along....
 
You missed my point.
Russia was and is subjected to sanctions. Even existing ones hurts the West more than Russia. And any new sanctions that in fact would deepen existing ones would cause the same effect.
You said:
You then whine about sanctions in an article talking about DETER not the latest proposed CW ones, so
Wrong sanctions. You can admit it. Going by Peskov’s squealing and Russia’s continuous attempts to get them relaxed, I doubt it
All existing and future anti-Russian santions include
- personal santions against some individuals (but not against Putin himself - why?). It is rather a symbolic measure.
- restrictions on export of dual purpose equipment. It is not a big problem and Russia could replay by own restictions in sales of missile engines, titanium
- sanctions against Russian companies and corporations. But it would cause symmetrict steps aagaists US corporations that extract good profits in Russia.
- restrictions in financial sphere. It is the most serious point but the restriction are in force during the last year without any visible effect.
How about you stop the actions which lead to the sanctions?
So all arguments in the article are applicable to any new santions.
DETER Act, not CW
The most effective measure - embargo on all oil/gas sales from Russia is unrealistic and even is not beeing discussed.
You could always return the favour and stop the exports. I wonder why you don’t?
 
Russia is designated in Washington as an enemy and any even absurd causes are and will be used to harm Russia's interests. Salisbury poisonings are such an absurd cause. In fact nothing has beenestablished. There are only allegations. But the guilty side is designated.
Namely you - the West - in fact unleashed the new cold war. OK, it is your choice.
You - the West - even don't try to win 'hearts and minds' in Russia. You try to punish the Russians as an enemy nation. But remember, we are ready for any war - cold, warm or hot.
Russia as a victim again. It’s a tired old trope wheeled out continuously.

Your govt. should grow up and accept responsibility for its actions
 
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Sanctions are illegal? Outside Russia, so is murder.


At last the US may give Russia the shoeing it so richly deserves.
 
Does someone have a list of the Commies contributing to this thread? It's all very confusing with so many funny names.Maybe the tech types could put a red star by their names?
Not many real Communists left in Russia. They are a crank fringe.
Plenty of pure fascists though.

Mussolini would be proud. His ideology has triumphed over Communism in its homeland, and the Russians never even noticed that they are now ruled by a Fascist secret police regime with Mafia overtones.
The public are blinded by a personality cult dictatorship, backed up with a murderous secret police service.
 
Does someone have a list of the Commies contributing to this thread? It's all very confusing with so many funny names.Maybe the tech types could put a red star by their names?
I,m definitely English my friend. The blurp relates to that funny sound police cars make if you flick the sirens switch on and off. I have been here 14 years or so.

I don't think I am a Russian sleeper but there may be a transistor in my brain that when activated will cause me to post agitprop bollocks.
 
Russia is designated in Washington as an enemy and any even absurd causes are and will be used to harm Russia's interests. Salisbury poisonings are such an absurd cause. In fact nothing has beenestablished. There are only allegations. But the guilty side is designated.
I can see the end result here. Even if you had the culprit cackling on RT admitting guilt after election to the Russian Parliament, you would deny.

Washington in the case with Iraq played Wolf who accused the Lamb in unspekable crimes while the Wolf was merely hungry and the only crime of the Lamb was its very existence.
This is pure whataboutery.

1] To the best of my knowledge, the US did not use NA against Iraq.
2] You cannot disprove one hypothesis with an argument against another hypothesis. This is basic science and logic.

ou - the West - even don't try to win 'hearts and minds' in Russia. You try to punish the Russians as an enemy nation. But remember, we are ready for any war - cold, warm or hot.
How truly pathetic. Bring back YarS. At least we can have a laugh with his threats. By the way, before you start your war, have a look at your logistics chains.

Sergei, you are reverting to type . Stop the threats. It demeans you. We understand the risks. We don't like bullies.

We also live in a world where the ideas of Mr. Clausewitz are essentially defunct at the level of state on state warfare because someone in a moment of stress, anger, fear will use nuclear weapons. After all, the chemical weapons taboo has been crossed. I think the latter is because all the people with experience of those weapons in our countries have died . I dealt with a few people whos inquests said they had died as a result of mustard gassing received in their youth. To their families, the horror was very real. Our societies and YOURS seem to have lost that fear.
 
On the other hand, perhaps the sanctions should be MASSIVELY increased against Russia to include banning any car, van, lorry sales or parts sales as well as any tech, clothing or food.
There is no need to ban food sales. Russia itself banned food import from the EU/US/Canada.
Tech, clothing? China will continue to sell them.
As for cars then a lot of them are being produced in Russia - Ford's, VW's, Skoda's, Renault's, Nissan's and especially Hyndai's. So you should first of all demand that Hyndai must stop car production in Russia. I doubt that they would agree just because of mysterious poisoning where nothing has been proved.
 

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