Critically ill man 'former Russian spy'

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I doubt that China, India and dozens other countries would support the idea of the 'quarantine'.
Would the EU stop to buy oil and gas from Russia?
With oil/gas import from Russia, the 'quarantine' would remain an empty claim.
We will trade with you.
Be under no illusions.
Your country is a pariah.

And you are of course, a lying turd.
 
In a political vacuum the nastiest and least scrupulous have the advantage.

Putin is a pussy compared to Stalin.
Maybe you prefer Stalin v2.0 at power in Russia?
Sweat dreams about Washington's puppet as president in Moscow are only dreams.
 
How it is possible to isolate Russia? Maybe you propose embargo for oil/gas import from Russia?
I don't propose any embargo of oil or gas. I would leave such proposals to the people in the West in government and commerce who understand energy issues. I don't.

What I would say as it is obvious to the man on the street is the following;

1] Russia maintains fiscal stability by dealing in resources. For example, they can increase foreign money into their economy by turning the spigot for more gas/oil/ ores. There is not a great deal else.

2] There appears to be a deficit in high end technical skills. What high end skills there are, are directed towards the military industrial complex. This reduces innovation. For example, where does Russia buy its computers from. What version of windows is used in Russian local government.?

3] The food production/biological sciences are still recovering from the depredations of Lysenkoism. How many world class geneticists does Russia produce? Who discovered monoclonals etc etc ?

4] The banking sector does not compete at the levels of Wall Street or London.

5] Education is either very good or it is not good. Would you say that expenditure on education exceeds any major Western nation?

So, we isolate Russia by not trading in high end electronics and skills derived from successful research in agronomy, genetics and so on. We deny the people of power in Russia the means to use their money in the West and to invest it. We outcompete you in commerce because we can. Remember, we have not managed to remove the entrepreneurial spirit from the gene pool in our nations.Note I say OUR. I could go on but as you will point out , this is unevidenced opinion .I could evidence it all but it detracts from the thread which is about a murder in Salisbury.

So, Russia isolates itself. More importantly, it is isolated by action against the people in power. If Mr. Putin ever were to retire , he would want somewhere to spend his money.

It does not have to be this way.
 
'Highly likely'
Russia hasn't vetoed investigations into the use of CW? Liar. They vetoed the JIM four times
3) Agitprop as a tool is quite common, in fact, in many countries including the UK
Tell me how many investigations there have been into CivCas caused by RuAF in Syria completed by RT?
4) Nationalism is also quote common in many countries. Who are they in the UKIP? Do Scotish nationalists exist?
'Whataboutery' I don't believe UKIP or SNP are pushing 'England/Scotland strong' and justifying stealing other countries
5) Allegations. Also it is not forbidden by any international treaty.
What a weasel answer.
6) Washington showed many examples of this sort.
'Whataboutery' When has Washington rattled its sabre at former members of its empire?
7) Washington showed many examples of this sort.
'Whataboutery' When has Washington annexed part of another sovereign country since the fall of the Berlin wall?
8 )What do you mean? I don't understand.
Your repeating of the RT lies and 'allegations'. For example his denial of any involvement in MH17, war in the Donbass etc etc.
9) Oligarchs and corrupted officials in Russia and in many other countries.
'Whataboutery' Not at state level. You yourself call them 'crooks and thieves'
10) Manipulations in politics are quite common in any country.
Example of western influence on Russian elections?
11) I'm unaware about political prisoners in Russia.
You missed Navalny's conviction? I'm sure you've commented on it previously
12) Books with alternative viewpoints are freely available in Russia.
Taught to kids as part of the curriculum?
13) What do you mean? Who was murdered?
You yourself have mentioned journalists and their 'unfortunate demise'. Do you not recall?
 
I don't propose any embargo of oil or gas. I would leave such proposals to the people in the West in government and commerce who understand energy issues. I don't.

What I would say as it is obvious to the man on the street is the following;

1] Russia maintains fiscal stability by dealing in resources. For example, they can increase foreign money into their economy by turning the spigot for more gas/oil/ ores. There is not a great deal else.
Russia is not KSA. It exports high tech products - weapons systems, missiles, fighter jets with Russian electronics. Missile engines are exported to the USA. Russia exports it nuclear technologies and know-how to Iran, China,, Turkey, Finland. It would be impossible without technical skills.
2] There appears to be a deficit in high end technical skills. What high end skills there are, are directed towards the military industrial complex. This reduces innovation. For example, where does Russia buy its computers from. What version of windows is used in Russian local government.?
Computers? As a rule they are being bought in China. Innovations in civil sphere? They could come to Russia from Israel, China, S.Korea, Taiwan, from other sources. Windows? 7 or10. But many governmental agencies use special versions of Linux (for security reasons).
3] The food production/biological sciences are still recovering from the depredations of Lysenkoism. How many world class geneticists does Russia produce? Who discovered monoclonals etc etc ?
To be fed human beings need first of all bread and Russia is the biggest expoter of wheat.
4] The banking sector does not compete at the levels of Wall Street or London.
Yes, WS and London will lose the client. Other financial centers will 'find' it.
5] Education is either very good or it is not good. Would you say that expenditure on education exceeds any major Western natio n?
Pres.Bush jr. was graduated in 2 best US universities with very expensive education. But is he indeed one of the best US intellectuals? Looking at some US politicians, at the ambassador to the UN one could doubt are they really educated.
So, we isolate Russia...
So, Russia isolates itself....
Is this post written by 2 different people? By blurp collective?
We outcompete you in commerce because we can.
Well, try as the first step to outcompete Russia in military buildup. The UK has bigger military spendings than Russia. But its armed forces are far not that powerful as Russian ones.
Remember, we have not managed to remove the entrepreneurial spirit from the gene pool in our nations.
It is a big mistake to underestimate other peoples on racial or/and ethnical ground.
 
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How it is possible to isolate Russia? Maybe you propose embargo for oil/gas import from Russia?
How much oil and gas does the UK get from Russia. Now there's a question, how much does Russia export beyond gas, oil and tanks.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
I would think that old hat un-updated pirated editions of Windows were marvellously hackable. I hope GCHQ is on the case.
 
How much oil and gas does the UK get from Russia. Now there's a question, how much does Russia export beyond gas, oil and tanks.
It's economy, stupid.
Pres.Clinton
Without Russian gas, deficit in Europe would be huge, prices would be fantastically high. Sothe UK would be affected...
Russia’s Top 10 Exports
  1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$173.3 billion (48.5% of total exports)
  2. Iron, steel: $18.8 billion (5.3%)
  3. Gems, precious metals: $11 billion (3.1%)
  4. Machinery including computers: $8.5 billion (2.4%)
  5. Wood: $7.9 billion (2.2%)
  6. Cereals: $7.5 billion (2.1%)
  7. Fertilizers: $7.2 billion (2%)
  8. Aluminum: $6.7 billion (1.9%)
  9. Copper: $4.7 billion (1.3%)
  10. Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (1.2%)
 
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TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
Without Russian gas, deficit in Europe would be huge, prices would be fantastically high. Sothe UK would be affected...
Yeah, so our energy bills would go up a bit. We have survived the Vikings, William the Conqueror, the Black Death, the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses, hassle from the fFrench, Spanish, ze Chermans, generation snowflake and Jeremy Corbyn.

We might take a hit in the short term on energy but ultimately, we tend not to take a hit from short people like Putin. Ask Napoleon. Or Hitler. Or Nigel Farrage.
 
Without Russian gas, deficit in Europe would be huge, prices would be fantastically high. Sothe UK would be affected...
Russia’s Top 10 Exports
Well, that is as good a picture of a Third World primary resource based economy, with a built in Dutch Disease factor that you could hope to see.
No services.
Negligible manufactured products.

Might as well be the Congo.
 
Without Russian gas, deficit in Europe would be huge, prices would be fantastically high. Sothe UK would be affected...
Russia’s Top 10 Exports
No, they will just speed up the pipe installation and gas terminals for sea delivery. Back in the 70s when the suez was closed we built large tankers and they took a little longer to get to Europe but once the system is up an running there is no problem.

So 50% of your export is oil and gas and you are aggravating your customers and threatening to turn it off. Good long term planning that.
I see you missed this bit,

Russia shipped US$357.1 billion worth of goods around the globe in 2017. That dollar amount for Russian exports reflects a -32.3% drop since 2013 but a 25.1% improvement from 2016 to 2017.
Given Russia’s population of 142.3 million people, its total $357.1 billion in 2017 exports translates to roughly $2,500 for every resident in the vast Eurasian country.
I wouldn't crow too much as the UK with a fraction of the land mass and 30% of your population produced-

Technically the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the western European country typically called the United Kingdom shipped US$445 billion worth of goods around the globe in 2017.

Given United Kingdom’s population of 64.8 million people, its total $444.5 billion in 2017 exports translates to roughly 6,900 for every resident in that country.
 
It is a big mistake to underestimate other peoples on racial or/and ethnical ground.

Don't start the racist tripe again. You have managed as a nation to remove your free thinkers and those with a back bone. At the time of Stalin very directly with a bullet to the head. His successors were a little more subtle and just stuck them in Gulags or lunatic asylums. Now they fall from windows and shoot themselves in the back of the head.
1] Primarily though, the tap of natural and finite resources.
2] So, you don't develop the tech. yourself. Q.E.D.
3] So how many high end geneticists do you produce? Question diversion .
4] Not the point I was making.
5] Diversion. Whether Mr. Bush is or is not intelligent is not the matter raised. It is about the quality of education comparative to the West. By the way, I suspect Mr. Bush was quite bright. All that shaved chimp stuff is just propaganda.

Is this post written by 2 different people? By blurp collective?
No. You note my absence for several hours. I have to do real things in the real world. I don't sit behind a computer lying for a living. In fact, I wouldn't. I know that concept is hard for you to grasp.

Well, try as the first step to outcompete Russia in military buildup. The UK has bigger military spendings than Russia. But its armed forces are far not that powerful as Russian ones.
Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear. I just knew that one was coming. The resort to thuggery and passive aggression .Not even going to bother to answer. I prefer the lack of guile of YarS who threatens us with 200 megaton airbursts.

You are trained reasonably well. You are resorting more and more now to the whataboutery and constant rhetorical counterpoints that actually say nothing or are not the answer to the question.

Now, where was this technique used before.

I remember, it was used under Stalin to create those memory holes when he removed the dissenters.
 
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I've been really busy all day, but have been listening to the radio as I worked.
Everytime the news mentioned Trump and sanctions for Russia I chuckled as I knew the trolls would have to pretend they had bee and sensible arguments to counter Trump.

What a bunch of idiots they are.
 
Don't start the racist tripe again. You have managed as a nation to remove your free thinkers and those with a back bone. At the time of Stalin very directly with a bullet to the head. His successors were a little more subtle and just stuck them in Gulags or lunatic asylums. Now they fall from windows and shoot themselves in the back of the head.
1] Primarily though, the tap of natural and finite resources.
2] So, you don't develop the tech. yourself. Q.E.D.
3] So how many high end geneticists do you produce? Question diversion .
4] Not the point I was making.
5] Diversion. Whether Mr. Bush is or is not intelligent is not the matter raised. It is about the quality of education comparative to the West. By the way, I suspect Mr. Bush was quite bright. All that shaved chimp stuff is just propaganda.



No. You note my absence for several hours. I have to do real things in the real world. I don't sit behind a computer lying for a living. In fact, I wouldn't. I know that concept is hard for you to grasp.



Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear. I just knew that one was coming. The resort to thuggery and passive aggression .Not even going to bother to answer. I prefer the lack of guile of YarS who threatens us with 200 megaton airbursts.

You are trained reasonably well. You are resorting more and more now to the whataboutery and constant rhetorical counterpoints that actually say nothing or are not the answer to the question.

Now, where was this technique used before.

I remember, it was used under Stalin to create those memory holes when he removed the dissenters.
I have an impression that you are a bit nervous. Relax.
Let's return to the theme of the thread.
New sanctions would hurt Russia — but hurt American industry more
New sanctions would hurt Russia — but hurt American industry more
There are reasonable arguments in the article. As I understand you disagree with them.
 
I have an impression that you are a bit nervous. Relax.
Let's return to the theme of the thread.
New sanctions would hurt Russia — but hurt American industry more

There are reasonable arguments in the article. As I understand you disagree with them.
Thank you, but that article isn't about the pending new sanctions over the use of chemical weapons, under completely different US legislation. Also, the article is not arguing against sanctions, but argues rather that they should be better targeted to be effective. The last 3 paragraphs refer. Finally, punitive sanctions imposed for non-trade reasons are intended to deter behaviour without resorting to military action, and by their very nature may economically disadvantage the state(s) imposing them.
 
I have an impression that you are a bit nervous. Relax.
The only one nervous on this thread appears to be you
Let's return to the theme of the thread.
That'd be nice. The use of nerve agent on UK soil. However, you come out with a bit of whining about the new US sanctions .....
New sanctions would hurt Russia — but hurt American industry more
There are reasonable arguments in the article. As I understand you disagree with them.
The Trolls frantically search for an article that disagrees with the latest sanctions and find one. However, he's not talking about the sanctions for the use of CW, he's talking about interfering in the US elections:
The urge to confront Russia for interfering in American elections is understandable, laudable, and well-intentioned. Sponsors of additional legislative sanctions on Russia purport to do just that. Their proposals, however, illustrate the law of unintended consequences.
It's about 'the DETER Act Bill':
The Defending Elections from Threats by Establishing Redlines (DETER) Act bill, introduced by Sens. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), would automatically slap sanctions on a broad swath of Russian companies and industries if the U.S. director of National Intelligence finds that interference occurs in future elections.
BY RICHARD SAWAYA, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 08/08/18 05:30 PM EDT
THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL
He has previous: How Russian sanctions could cost US energy dominance
It's also nice to know why he is so business focussed: Press Releases

Subscribe to read | Financial Times
Now for the reasons behind the whining:
The rouble fell to its lowest level against the dollar in nearly two years on Wednesday as concern over possible new US economic sanctions began to unsettle investors.

The Russian currency traded at more than 64.5 to the dollar, an almost 2 per cent slide. Barring a brief rise above 65 earlier this year, the currency has not been at these levels since late 2016.

Stocks and bonds were also swept up in the worry, which came after newspaper Kommersant published the text of a new US sanctions bill — nearly a week after US senators introduced it.

“The direction of travel is pretty clear,” said Maya Senussi at Oxford Economics. “There is no doubt that the US is intent on ratcheting up the pressure and tightening the measures already imposed.”

Russia’s RTS index of equity futures set to expire in September fell nearly 3 per cent after investors, most of them from outside Russia, traded more than $600m during the day.

Shares in Sberbank, one of the most widely held Russian stocks, fell 4.5 per cent to their lowest level since April. That was when a round of US Treasury sanctions, the first to hit publicly traded companies such as aluminium producer Rusal, saw the bank’s shares drop 20 per cent as part of a broader sell-off in Russia.
And the Bill hasn't even been passed yet:
Although it remains unclear whether the bill will pass Congress and in what form, a desire to ensure US president Donald Trump keeps pressure on Russia has spurred attempts to pass further sanctions before November’s midterm elections. It is likely to face a tougher passage in the House of Representatives.

“First, people thought the new bill was extremely tough; and second, they thought it would never get passed. We have heard that before, and then Rusal happened,” said Liza Ermolenko, an economist at Barclays.
Russia denounces new U.S. sanctions as illegal, mulls retaliation
The whining continues as the Kremlin says they're illegal, despite not having been passed yet and are 'mulling reprisals':
US sanctions over Salisbury poisoning 'unacceptable', Russia says
Peskov appears upset:
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov also called the sanctions "absolutely illegal", saying they "do not correspond to international law".
To summarise:
Sawaya isn't talking about the proposed CW sanctions
They're not law yet, there's 15 days or so for them to lay before possibly taking effect.
The Kremlin is upset by them.
You are desperately seeking something to show how bad the sanctions will be for American business and pick the wrong article.
 
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