• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

Critically ill man 'former Russian spy'

Status
Not open for further replies.
And that ladies and gentlemen is what Russia wants. For 'the West' to forget about it and move on. Much like Crimea, MH17, E Ukraine, CW use in Syria etc. etc. For all of these episodes to be 'forgotten about'.
It will not be forgotten.
Russia is the down market version of Pariah's are us. There are the top of the market pariahs like North Korea. It's not just a political assassination, its a Kim young'un political assassination. Marks and sparks of the murderous regimes. Then there's Central African republic with a few hundred cheap and cheerful machete killings a week with a side order of dead human heart. Russia is like pound world. Sell you absolute rubbish then deny they have ever sold it to you. When you get antsy, they start whingeing about their victimhood.
Not to worry, they will soon be out of business with such poor customer service.
 
If British embassy would issue the visa (why not?) then there would be no complaint.
As for the complaint to the UN then Victoria Skripal wrote an open letter to PMTM and it was ignored. Who are Victoria Skripal to disturb so busy woman as mrs.May?

Viktoria Skripal's visa application was denied on the grounds that it "did not comply with the immigration rules."

Just like trying to get a visa for many others countries, there are rules and if you do not comply you will fail to get one.
 
If anyone blames anyone without providing any evidence to validate their claim we should all be worried.
If that sort of logic/thinking takes hold anything could be in the offing in the future.

I agree, we must evaluate what we can gleen from media before jumping to any conclusions unlike HMG.

Or a Turkish accent to reconfirm what we already know?
This is something that I came across this morning ref. Skripal.

Vladimir 'Vovan' Kuznetsov and Alexei 'Lexus' Stolyarov, the pair of Russian telephone pranksters well-known for their constant trolling of Western officials, have put out an audio recording of their conversation with Ahmet Uzumcu, the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

Posing as Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, the pranksters got the man in the tape to admit that the nerve agent used to poison Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia could have been made anywhere, and to point out that the British government never gave the OPCW the mandate to trace the source of the chemical.


Here is a partial transcript of their conversatio.,We already know most of this already:

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: As far as the OPCW involvement is concerned Mr. Prime Minister, we were asked by the United Kingdom to provide technical assistance, to take samples and to analyze them in our designated laboratories, which are very reliable. The work was done and it is now concluded. The results in fact confirm as far as the identity of the chemical which was used. We were able to confirm the results achieved by the British authorities. We don't call it with the same name, but the nature of the chemical is in fact identical, as far as the chemistry is concerned. So the formula is the same and so on. They call it Novichok; we cannot call it Novichok because Novichok is a terminology used by Western countries. It's not universally used…It's like calling water and H20.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: But you are not sure that it could be produced by a state?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: We cannot be sure. Our experts cannot verify this, but they think that it was done by real experts.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok. So it's not possible that it was produced by a private actor?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh no. I think we can exclude this, yes. I don't think it can be done.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok, so if it is a state, I hope you understand that it could be only Russia. If not, do you have any ideas which other states could have developed this substance? In theory such labs are in Russia, but [also] in Great Britain, the USA, Ukraine and even in Poland as well.

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Mr. Prime Minister, according to our experts, it can be produced in any state. This cannot be excluded. However, also, the Russians claim that there were some research activities on such substances elsewhere, which may be true. But the states which may have conducted such activities would have done it for protective, defensive purposes [aimed at determining] how to detect it, how to defend or develop some antidotes against the use of such substances and so on. But these activities are allowed by the [Chemical Weapons] Convention. They can be conducted, and they don't need to be declared.

However, if such research activities are conducted for the production of such substances, and for their use in fact to harm people in warfare and so on, of course they need to be declared, and so far we didn't receive such as declaration from any member country of the OPCW.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: So it could be produced in any country?


Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: In theory yes.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: In theory yes…So even in the US?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh absolutely! In any country where there would be some chemistry expertise. Because the material which is used, as I'm told by our experts, is accessible. So that's the problem we face with this toxic chemical. The material to produce it is available without any restrictions. However, a high degree of expertise is required, and also a good laboratory is required.

Listen to the full audio of Vovan and Lexus' conversation Ahmet Uzumcu here:

A very interesting and not really ground-breaking 20min phone-call that also touches on Douma at the end.
It shows that there's still no evidence it was the evil Russians btw.


https://nypost.com/2017/12/28/russian-pranksters-fool-nikki-haley-in-call-about-fake-country/
US energy secretary Rick Perry duped by Russian pranksters to talk about pig manure
‘Never’: Erdogan ‘tells’ Russian pranksters no chance he would apologize to Russia for downed Su-24
Kremlin calling? Meet the Russian pranksters who say 'Elton owes us'
I'm not sure what you think you've proved, if that was your intent.

I don't see anything there which contradicts what the UK gov't has concluded.
 
If anyone blames anyone without providing any evidence to validate their claim we should all be worried.
If that sort of logic/thinking takes hold anything could be in the offing in the future.

I agree, we must evaluate what we can gleen from media before jumping to any conclusions unlike HMG.

Or a Turkish accent to reconfirm what we already know?
This is something that I came across this morning ref. Skripal.

Vladimir 'Vovan' Kuznetsov and Alexei 'Lexus' Stolyarov, the pair of Russian telephone pranksters well-known for their constant trolling of Western officials, have put out an audio recording of their conversation with Ahmet Uzumcu, the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

Posing as Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, the pranksters got the man in the tape to admit that the nerve agent used to poison Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia could have been made anywhere, and to point out that the British government never gave the OPCW the mandate to trace the source of the chemical.


Here is a partial transcript of their conversatio.,We already know most of this already:

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: As far as the OPCW involvement is concerned Mr. Prime Minister, we were asked by the United Kingdom to provide technical assistance, to take samples and to analyze them in our designated laboratories, which are very reliable. The work was done and it is now concluded. The results in fact confirm as far as the identity of the chemical which was used. We were able to confirm the results achieved by the British authorities. We don't call it with the same name, but the nature of the chemical is in fact identical, as far as the chemistry is concerned. So the formula is the same and so on. They call it Novichok; we cannot call it Novichok because Novichok is a terminology used by Western countries. It's not universally used…It's like calling water and H20.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: But you are not sure that it could be produced by a state?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: We cannot be sure. Our experts cannot verify this, but they think that it was done by real experts.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok. So it's not possible that it was produced by a private actor?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh no. I think we can exclude this, yes. I don't think it can be done.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok, so if it is a state, I hope you understand that it could be only Russia. If not, do you have any ideas which other states could have developed this substance? In theory such labs are in Russia, but [also] in Great Britain, the USA, Ukraine and even in Poland as well.

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Mr. Prime Minister, according to our experts, it can be produced in any state. This cannot be excluded. However, also, the Russians claim that there were some research activities on such substances elsewhere, which may be true. But the states which may have conducted such activities would have done it for protective, defensive purposes [aimed at determining] how to detect it, how to defend or develop some antidotes against the use of such substances and so on. But these activities are allowed by the [Chemical Weapons] Convention. They can be conducted, and they don't need to be declared.

However, if such research activities are conducted for the production of such substances, and for their use in fact to harm people in warfare and so on, of course they need to be declared, and so far we didn't receive such as declaration from any member country of the OPCW.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: So it could be produced in any country?


Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: In theory yes.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: In theory yes…So even in the US?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh absolutely! In any country where there would be some chemistry expertise. Because the material which is used, as I'm told by our experts, is accessible. So that's the problem we face with this toxic chemical. The material to produce it is available without any restrictions. However, a high degree of expertise is required, and also a good laboratory is required.

Listen to the full audio of Vovan and Lexus' conversation Ahmet Uzumcu here:

A very interesting and not really ground-breaking 20min phone-call that also touches on Douma at the end.
It shows that there's still no evidence it was the evil Russians btw.


https://nypost.com/2017/12/28/russian-pranksters-fool-nikki-haley-in-call-about-fake-country/
US energy secretary Rick Perry duped by Russian pranksters to talk about pig manure
‘Never’: Erdogan ‘tells’ Russian pranksters no chance he would apologize to Russia for downed Su-24
Kremlin calling? Meet the Russian pranksters who say 'Elton owes us'
Or in other words just like the quote from Porton Down - “We’ve looked at the science with regard to the substance, we haven’t decided who did it”
 
Ongoing criminal investigation.

Gonna cry? Need a tissue? A 'safe space'?

To be honest, until Vlad goes on live TV, is shown to have no coercion and admits it, conspiraloons will still believe what they want to believe.
And you'd be happy with having Vlad on tv or you'd just carry on wiith your 'no evidence must mean it's Ru' line?
UI
 
And you'd be happy with having Vlad on tv or you'd just carry on wiith your 'no evidence must mean it's Ru' line?
UI
I’d be happy with Vlad admitting it. All of the serious evidence points to Russia. He won’t admit it though. It’s in his psyche. A bit like the Katyn massacre, only confirmed when the archives were opened.
 
I'm not sure what you think you've proved, if that was your intent.

I don't see anything there which contradicts what the UK gov't has concluded.
The fact that anyone can make this CW is still the point.
Many have gone back tothe 'it has to be the Russians as it was a Ru NA' line.
Selective memories
 
The cousin of ms.Skripal Victoria lives with her (and ms.Skripal's) Grandmother in the same flat. She claims that there was only one (well known) telephone call from Yulia Skripal. That's all.
Yes, Victoria Skripal tried to get British visa but her request was refused. Now she makes the second attempt with letter (power of attorney) from her Gandmother to visit her son (Victoria's uncle Sergei Skripal) in the UK.
Виктория Скрипаль намерена обратиться в ООН в случае отказа Великобритании выдать ей визу
Victoria Skripal plans to complain in the UN if she would be refused British visa again. What is the problem? Victoria is just an ordinary woman. She would visit her relatives, would confirm that everything is OK. She would calm her Grandmother. And the problem would be closed.
The problem might be that Yulia doesn’t wish to see them? Who knows?
 
Yeah but that's not evidence to him.

The evidence he wants needs to be an HD video on YouTube or CT websites (since that's where CTERs get all their info from) of everything that happened with talking heads saying 'it was me that done it' in a posh English accent whilst flashing their MI6 credentials.
I am afraid that won't cut it now. This is the new kid on the block and all video will become questionable.

 
News to me.
Seem's like they're pulling a 'flat earth' to defame everyone who questions the official line here.
Moscow Tmes are a free, anti-Putin Dutch owned rag who are anything but unbiased and impartial.
The fact that they still operate shows that Ru isn't as bad as many of you think.
Not a surprise as your news feed is very limited.
 
News to me.
Seem's like they're pulling a 'flat earth' to defame everyone who questions the official line here.
Moscow Tmes are a free, anti-Putin Dutch owned rag who are anything but unbiased and impartial.
The fact that they still operate shows that Ru isn't as bad as many of you think.
You might want to see these then:

The Douma Chemical Attack - Fake News about Fake News on Russia's Fake News - bellingcat

Anatomy of a Russian Chemical Weapons Lab Lie - bellingcat

And the Moscow Times caters to expats in the main, so the Kremlin's not too worried about what they think as opposed to controlling the message to its own Russian citizens. If MT was seen to influence Russian citizens views I've no doubt they'd be squeezed as well.

E2A: For instance, what some see as defamation, could indeed be the exposure of lies, corruption and other goings on that the Russian powers that be wouldn't want airing:

Putin Signs Internet Libel Bill Into Law
 
The fact that anyone can make this CW is still the point.
Many have gone back tothe 'it has to be the Russians as it was a Ru NA' line.
Selective memories

I think the OPCW chap said any state. So that is not anybody The rest of the evidence points to Russia. It is evidence whether you like it or not. Not tested by a court of law, hence the highly likely statement but still evidence.
 
@184461

What exactly do you mean by the word evidence. I think there may be a little bit of confusion here?
Let's recall fate of CIA defector
Edward Lee Howard - Wikipedia
Edward Lee Victor Howard (27 October 1951 – 12 July 2002) was a CIA case officer who defected to the Soviet Union.
Howard died on July 12, 2002, at his Russian dacha, reportedly from a broken neck after a fall in his home.
Had CIA a cause to kill him. Yes.
Can it be regarded as evidence? No.
Was it a murder? Who knows?
If it was killing then is the USA responsible? Innocent until proven guilty.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top