Critically ill man 'former Russian spy'

This whole thing has been absence of the normal, presence of the abnormal right from the day1.

Lucky that most arrseholes have been conditioned to accept that Ru did it with no evidence.
Along with everything else Ru have pulled- also with no evidence.

Stroke of genius really.
When Malaysia says its lab has found only a nerve agent used by Israel and asks Israel where it came from and Israel doesn’t reply so they then expul some diplomats; you may have a point. Until then it’s your normal ‘the Joos done it’ philosophy.
 
Absence of logical explanation is very suspicious.
This has been covered. I will give you a scenario which is a possible in your world of mental gymnastics
;

1] They cannot speak or hold a train of thought. This is not contradicted by the known facts sic. It is Novichok. Novichok tends to affect people's cognitive abilities. There may have been a respite period when she made a statement. This is not contradicted by the known facts sic, i.e. lucid periods when exposed to sub lethal concentrations of CW agents.

2] Fear for relatives. Remember the sippenhaft question I introduced and you forgot to answer. Apologies if this was another operator. This is not contradicted by the known facts sic. Remember, Mr. Skripal's North American indian name: friends die soon. Russians have a tendency to off family members of persons considered surplus to requirements. Might be you one day.

What is very suspicious is that you come here and will NEVER face the elephant in the room and continue to peddle the same propaganda day in and day out without end about this and other subjects One almost might surmise that you are in the employ of an organisation with the main effort based on spreading disinformation. It does not contradict the known facts sic.


Has the BZ story died yet?

Why do double standards as you call them exist towards the Russian state? For the moment, we will ignore the fact that there has been a CW attack on UK soil. None of the known facts implying Russian involvement are contradicted . Why do a significant proportion of major state actors wish to isolate Russia. Can you think why?

After all, you seem to think it is just a game
 
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A more relevant argument would be the drone strikes by the US on enemy leaders. But that does not fit the news feed of him/she/it. They are unable to distinguish the difference between CW and a bullet.

Most likely reason for the death would be conflicts within Hamas but that would be too simple and not fit his news feed which is very limited.
Cannot better that comment, particularly the first bit.
 
This whole thing has been absence of the normal, presence of the abnormal right from the day1.

Lucky that most arrseholes have been conditioned to accept that Ru did it with no evidence.
Along with everything else Ru have pulled- also with no evidence.

Stroke of genius really.
Why is it so important to you that Russia didn't do it?
 
He- @184461 - can just keep repeating the ‘no evidence’ mantra, and we can just keep repeating the answer: “except that found, investigated, found to be Soviet NA, and verified by the respected OPCW evidence?”
Yeah but that's not evidence to him.

The evidence he wants needs to be an HD video on YouTube or CT websites (since that's where CTERs get all their info from) of everything that happened with talking heads saying 'it was me that done it' in a posh English accent whilst flashing their MI6 credentials.
 
Why is it so important to you that Russia didn't do it?
If anyone blames anyone without providing any evidence to validate their claim we should all be worried.
If that sort of logic/thinking takes hold anything could be in the offing in the future.
Or maybe most people have a different point of view.
I agree, we must evaluate what we can gleen from media before jumping to any conclusions unlike HMG.
The evidence he wants needs to be an HD video on YouTube or CT websites (since that's where CTERs get all their info from) of everything that happened with talking heads saying 'it was me that done it' in a posh English accent whilst flashing their MI6 credentials.
Or a Turkish accent to reconfirm what we already know?
This is something that I came across this morning ref. Skripal.

Vladimir 'Vovan' Kuznetsov and Alexei 'Lexus' Stolyarov, the pair of Russian telephone pranksters well-known for their constant trolling of Western officials, have put out an audio recording of their conversation with Ahmet Uzumcu, the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

Posing as Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, the pranksters got the man in the tape to admit that the nerve agent used to poison Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia could have been made anywhere, and to point out that the British government never gave the OPCW the mandate to trace the source of the chemical.


Here is a partial transcript of their conversatio.,We already know most of this already:

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: As far as the OPCW involvement is concerned Mr. Prime Minister, we were asked by the United Kingdom to provide technical assistance, to take samples and to analyze them in our designated laboratories, which are very reliable. The work was done and it is now concluded. The results in fact confirm as far as the identity of the chemical which was used. We were able to confirm the results achieved by the British authorities. We don't call it with the same name, but the nature of the chemical is in fact identical, as far as the chemistry is concerned. So the formula is the same and so on. They call it Novichok; we cannot call it Novichok because Novichok is a terminology used by Western countries. It's not universally used…It's like calling water and H20.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: But you are not sure that it could be produced by a state?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: We cannot be sure. Our experts cannot verify this, but they think that it was done by real experts.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok. So it's not possible that it was produced by a private actor?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh no. I think we can exclude this, yes. I don't think it can be done.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok, so if it is a state, I hope you understand that it could be only Russia. If not, do you have any ideas which other states could have developed this substance? In theory such labs are in Russia, but [also] in Great Britain, the USA, Ukraine and even in Poland as well.

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Mr. Prime Minister, according to our experts, it can be produced in any state. This cannot be excluded. However, also, the Russians claim that there were some research activities on such substances elsewhere, which may be true. But the states which may have conducted such activities would have done it for protective, defensive purposes [aimed at determining] how to detect it, how to defend or develop some antidotes against the use of such substances and so on. But these activities are allowed by the [Chemical Weapons] Convention. They can be conducted, and they don't need to be declared.

However, if such research activities are conducted for the production of such substances, and for their use in fact to harm people in warfare and so on, of course they need to be declared, and so far we didn't receive such as declaration from any member country of the OPCW.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: So it could be produced in any country?


Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: In theory yes.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: In theory yes…So even in the US?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh absolutely! In any country where there would be some chemistry expertise. Because the material which is used, as I'm told by our experts, is accessible. So that's the problem we face with this toxic chemical. The material to produce it is available without any restrictions. However, a high degree of expertise is required, and also a good laboratory is required.

Listen to the full audio of Vovan and Lexus' conversation Ahmet Uzumcu here:

A very interesting and not really ground-breaking 20min phone-call that also touches on Douma at the end.
It shows that there's still no evidence it was the evil Russians btw.


https://nypost.com/2017/12/28/russian-pranksters-fool-nikki-haley-in-call-about-fake-country/
US energy secretary Rick Perry duped by Russian pranksters to talk about pig manure
‘Never’: Erdogan ‘tells’ Russian pranksters no chance he would apologize to Russia for downed Su-24
Kremlin calling? Meet the Russian pranksters who say 'Elton owes us'
 
How do we know the Skripal’s have not been in touch with their loved ones? It would be a private matter surely? Maybe the family will visit them here or in the US.
The cousin of ms.Skripal Victoria lives with her (and ms.Skripal's) Grandmother in the same flat. She claims that there was only one (well known) telephone call from Yulia Skripal. That's all.
Yes, Victoria Skripal tried to get British visa but her request was refused. Now she makes the second attempt with letter (power of attorney) from her Gandmother to visit her son (Victoria's uncle Sergei Skripal) in the UK.
Виктория Скрипаль намерена обратиться в ООН в случае отказа Великобритании выдать ей визу
Victoria Skripal plans to complain in the UN if she would be refused British visa again. What is the problem? Victoria is just an ordinary woman. She would visit her relatives, would confirm that everything is OK. She would calm her Grandmother. And the problem would be closed.
 
point out that the British government never gave the OPCW the mandate to trace the source of the chemical.
I am of the impression that the UK government cannot give such a mandate. They could ask nicely. The mandate is generally to identify and it is not granted but requested by the accessing government. Again, as we have seen with the BZ fiasco, some of us sheeple need a little extra . A reputable news source would be forthcoming plus evidence that the requesting state can ask for source and expect their request to be actioned. It would be dangerous for the OPCW to ascribe blame for obvious reasons to do with their work. Please provide evidence, ideally within the stated mandate of the OPCW.

I thought one of the main strands of your argument was that source cannot be identified despite mention of assaying trace elements etc. Has this changed or was it one of the Sergei's talking about this?
 
If anyone blames anyone without providing any evidence to validate their claim we should all be worried.
If that sort of logic/thinking takes hold anything could be in the offing in the future.

I agree, we must evaluate what we can gleen from media before jumping to any conclusions unlike HMG.

Or a Turkish accent to reconfirm what we already know?
This is something that I came across this morning ref. Skripal.

Vladimir 'Vovan' Kuznetsov and Alexei 'Lexus' Stolyarov, the pair of Russian telephone pranksters well-known for their constant trolling of Western officials, have put out an audio recording of their conversation with Ahmet Uzumcu, the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

Posing as Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, the pranksters got the man in the tape to admit that the nerve agent used to poison Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia could have been made anywhere, and to point out that the British government never gave the OPCW the mandate to trace the source of the chemical.


Here is a partial transcript of their conversatio.,We already know most of this already:

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: As far as the OPCW involvement is concerned Mr. Prime Minister, we were asked by the United Kingdom to provide technical assistance, to take samples and to analyze them in our designated laboratories, which are very reliable. The work was done and it is now concluded. The results in fact confirm as far as the identity of the chemical which was used. We were able to confirm the results achieved by the British authorities. We don't call it with the same name, but the nature of the chemical is in fact identical, as far as the chemistry is concerned. So the formula is the same and so on. They call it Novichok; we cannot call it Novichok because Novichok is a terminology used by Western countries. It's not universally used…It's like calling water and H20.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: But you are not sure that it could be produced by a state?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: We cannot be sure. Our experts cannot verify this, but they think that it was done by real experts.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok. So it's not possible that it was produced by a private actor?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh no. I think we can exclude this, yes. I don't think it can be done.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: Ok, so if it is a state, I hope you understand that it could be only Russia. If not, do you have any ideas which other states could have developed this substance? In theory such labs are in Russia, but [also] in Great Britain, the USA, Ukraine and even in Poland as well.

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Mr. Prime Minister, according to our experts, it can be produced in any state. This cannot be excluded. However, also, the Russians claim that there were some research activities on such substances elsewhere, which may be true. But the states which may have conducted such activities would have done it for protective, defensive purposes [aimed at determining] how to detect it, how to defend or develop some antidotes against the use of such substances and so on. But these activities are allowed by the [Chemical Weapons] Convention. They can be conducted, and they don't need to be declared.

However, if such research activities are conducted for the production of such substances, and for their use in fact to harm people in warfare and so on, of course they need to be declared, and so far we didn't receive such as declaration from any member country of the OPCW.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: So it could be produced in any country?


Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: In theory yes.

Pranksters posing as Morawiecki: In theory yes…So even in the US?

Alleged Ahmet Uzumcu: Oh absolutely! In any country where there would be some chemistry expertise. Because the material which is used, as I'm told by our experts, is accessible. So that's the problem we face with this toxic chemical. The material to produce it is available without any restrictions. However, a high degree of expertise is required, and also a good laboratory is required.

Listen to the full audio of Vovan and Lexus' conversation Ahmet Uzumcu here:

A very interesting and not really ground-breaking 20min phone-call that also touches on Douma at the end.
It shows that there's still no evidence it was the evil Russians btw.


https://nypost.com/2017/12/28/russian-pranksters-fool-nikki-haley-in-call-about-fake-country/
US energy secretary Rick Perry duped by Russian pranksters to talk about pig manure
‘Never’: Erdogan ‘tells’ Russian pranksters no chance he would apologize to Russia for downed Su-24
Kremlin calling? Meet the Russian pranksters who say 'Elton owes us'
Which part of 'state actor' are you having problems comprehending?
 
I am of the impression that the UK government cannot give such a mandate. They could ask nicely. The mandate is generally to identify and it is not granted but requested by the accessing government. Again, as we have seen with the BZ fiasco, some of us sheeple need a little extra . A reputable news source would be forthcoming plus evidence that the requesting state can ask for source and expect their request to be actioned. It would be dangerous for the OPCW to ascribe blame for obvious reasons to do with their work.
I know, right?
Please provide evidence, ideally within the stated mandate of the OPCW.
No time to dig for what probably is 'unfindable'.
You could search though or is it just down to me?
 
And the problem would be closed.
And that ladies and gentlemen is what Russia wants. For 'the West' to forget about it and move on. Much like Crimea, MH17, E Ukraine, CW use in Syria etc. etc. For all of these episodes to be 'forgotten about'.
 
And that ladies and gentlemen is what Russia wants. For 'the West' to forget about it and move on. Much like Crimea, MH17, E Ukraine, CW use in Syria etc. etc. For all of these episodes to be 'forgotten about'.
Like the Skripal affair in the UK you mean.
Maybe the Russians got doodah up the duff and that's why the only news on the means is about the new royal parasite?
The Russians did it? Hahaha...Sometimes I'm just too funny for my own good.
 
Like the Skripal affair in the UK you mean.
Ongoing criminal investigation.
Maybe the Russians got doodah up the duff and that's why the only news on the means is about the new royal parasite?
Gonna cry? Need a tissue? A 'safe space'?
The Russians did it? Hahaha...Sometimes I'm just too funny for my own good.
To be honest, until Vlad goes on live TV, is shown to have no coercion and admits it, conspiraloons will still believe what they want to believe.
 
Like the Skripal affair in the UK you mean.
Maybe the Russians got doodah up the duff and that's why the only news on the means is about the new royal parasite?
The Russians did it? Hahaha...Sometimes I'm just too funny for my own good.
You are a legend in your own lunch time.

Everyone's sides are splitting at your humour. Oh no wait a minute, they are not, they are laughing at your idiotic comments.
 
No time to dig for what probably is 'unfindable'.
You could search though or is it just down to me?

No . Not just down to you but you may have noticed that many have provided reasoned statements which you have mostly ignored. I have provided input on the chemistry and symptomology of CW agents . Others have given detail about political issues.

If you come up with a statement from Sputnik, ok. I have no doubt those two young men did the prank call. It is the spin on the words about providing mandates which cannot be provided and not being able to identify source as some sort of revelation by you and others and now introducing it as a new information.

You should have checked the mandate of OPCW first. It does not give obligation about identifying source ( although they may have done it privately).

I have searched through. I was looking to you for information which I may have missed. The reason is that I did not see any mention of a mandate or otherwise in the translated? 'phone call.
 
I think that would be a wholly appropriate course of action. I would note the results of such a complaint with interest. When you say she would, I take it you mean the state would on her behalf?
If British embassy would issue the visa (why not?) then there would be no complaint.
As for the complaint to the UN then Victoria Skripal wrote an open letter to PMTM and it was ignored. Who are Victoria Skripal to disturb so busy woman as mrs.May?
 

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