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Critically ill man 'former Russian spy'

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It is reported that after Litvinenko was murdered the Labour Govt kicked out 4 Russians and three months later sent David(?) Miliband to Moscow to grovel and plead for normalisation of relations.
Corbyn would not have kicked out anyone. Probably would have said that the Russian were ‘justified in their actions.'

He does have a track record of admiring some rather strange/less than desirable, people.
 
Nope, they're getting their thematic lines in order.
They often lack a continuity between shifts. both in attitude and content. I don't think they get the necessary briefing time between contact time with their audience and a read over of notes and themes previously presented. It can often be that little bit of prep. that counts. I blame the bean counters ( and Brexit...obviously).


You act as though this is all a simple misunderstanding. It is a world wide revulsion at unacceptable behaviour and a huge disparity in the value given to human life by different cultures.
I think this sums up a lot of what has been talked about these last few weeks. I really do think that they don't know.
 
It is reported that after Litvinenko was murdered the Labour Govt kicked out 4 Russians and three months later sent David(?) Miliband to Moscow to grovel and plead for normalisation of relations.
The meeting was in New York at the UN. It centred around extradition and trying to get Ivan to change their constitution to allow it. I'm sure you can guess how far Blair lite got.
 
They often lack a continuity between shifts. both in attitude and content. I don't think they get the necessary briefing time between contact time with their audience and a read over of notes and themes previously presented. It can often be that little bit of prep. that counts. I blame the bean counters ( and Brexit...obviously).




I think this sums up a lot of what has been talked about these last few weeks. I really do think that they don't know.
Sergei is an old fashioned troll more than anything, any perceived changes in personality much more likely to Friday night syndrome.
 
Sergei is an old fashioned troll more than anything, any perceived changes in personality much more likely to Friday night syndrome.

I used to think along those lines. Last six months or so, I have looked at sentence construction, language ability and scientific knowledge, e.g. the Fourier transformation ( which I do not understand). Sometimes English words are understood. Other times they aren't. but the back story of being Mathematician/engineer remains unchanged. I would like this to be true. I think there are four people on the account.

In any event, all these could be manipulated by one intelligent managing individual or be the result of one person doing a multiple act according to script. I know you take anything said with a pinch of salt but this account is highly manipulative in use of words and serves his employers well. It doesn't have much if any effect here, but the Sergei account would play merry havoc on a forum with a less cynical/worldly wise readership.
 
I used to think along those lines. Last six months or so, I have looked at sentence construction, language ability and scientific knowledge, e.g. the Fourier transformation ( which I do not understand). Sometimes English words are understood. Other times they aren't. but the back story of being Mathematician/engineer remains unchanged. I would like this to be true. I think there are four people on the account.

In any event, all these could be manipulated by one intelligent managing individual or be the result of one person doing a multiple act according to script. I know you take anything said with a pinch of salt but this account is highly manipulative in use of words and serves his employers well. It doesn't have much if any effect here, but the Sergei account would play merry havoc on a forum with a less cynical/worldly wise readership.

The persona is convincing (he is like many of my Russian friends and former colleagues), but there have been on occasion such obvious step-changes in language, discourse and viewpoint that I would agree that the account is used by at least two individuals, and possibly more.
 
In our thought exercise, if Putin is responsible, what would be your opinion of his actions?
First of all I would like to recall an old story about 'defector' Yurchenko.
Vitaly Yurchenko - Wikipedia
Vitaly Sergeyevich Yurchenko ... is a former high-ranking KGB officer in the Soviet Union. After 25 years of service in the KGB, he defected to the United States during an assignment in Rome.[1] After providing the names of two U.S. intelligence officers who were KGB agents, Yurchenko slipped from the Americans and returned to the Soviets.
My late Father (KGB colonel, military counter-intelligence) was extremely upset after the 'defection' happened 1 August 1985. He knew mr.Yurchenko personally and was absolutely sure that he could not be a defector. Later it appeared that my Father was right.
In November 1985, before eating a meal at Au Pied de Cochon, a French restaurant in the Georgetown neighborhood of Washington, D.C., Yurchenko told his CIA guard, "I'm going for a walk. If I don't come back, it's not your fault."[2] Yurchenko did not return.
Several days later, the Soviet Embassy called a press conference, at which Yurchenko announced he had been kidnapped and drugged by the Americans. It is possible that his defection was staged to fool the CIA with wrong leads, to protect Aldrich Ames, an American who worked for the CIA and was then one of the USSR's most important moles within the CIA.
Of course it was a staged 'defection' and mr.Yurchenko told the CIA something that they always were aware about or strongly suspected. Now we know that the main objective was to protect indirectly Aldrich Ames - the most valuable source of information for Moscow, even at expense of other less valuable informants.
But of course my Father was not aware that it was fake 'defection'. I asked naively - will be he killed by Soviet agents as a traitor. My Father answered that there is unwritten rule, unwritten accord between Soviet and Western secret services. Personal terrorism, killings of agents, abductions are not used. Defectors can be captured, abducted, killed only on national territory or territory of allies.
Returning to your question I propose 2 versions.
1. The West violated the unwritten accord and Russian agent was killed by CIA or MI5/MI6. Maybe in Syria or another country. So mr.Putin could order killing of mr.Skripal as a retaliation and warning.
2. Mr.Putin could order mr.Skripal to poison himself. Yes, in theory it is possible. Mr.Skripal could be not double but triple agent and work for Moscow living in Salisbury. So mr.Skripal poisoned himself and his daughter using rather harmless poison to accuse later British secret services in the poisoning. But the British disclosed this scheme and invented 'Novichok strory'.
 
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I used to think along those lines. Last six months or so, I have looked at sentence construction, language ability and scientific knowledge, e.g. the Fourier transformation ( which I do not understand). Sometimes English words are understood. Other times they aren't. but the back story of being Mathematician/engineer remains unchanged. I would like this to be true. I think there are four people on the account.

In any event, all these could be manipulated by one intelligent managing individual or be the result of one person doing a multiple act according to script. I know you take anything said with a pinch of salt but this account is highly manipulative in use of words and serves his employers well. It doesn't have much if any effect here, but the Sergei account would play merry havoc on a forum with a less cynical/worldly wise readership.
I concur - especially with that last paragraph. I have wondered for a while now why on earth they bother coming in here, they tend to get their arrses handed to them on a plate every time, but back they come, same old same old, yet not a single arrser has had any sort of Damascene revelation (as far as I can see)

So my conclusion is that this is where they come to test drive their latest wibble. It gets seen off on round one, reappears and gets battered second time around, demolished third time and kicked in the nuts thereafter.

But in all of that, we respondents have added perspective, information, insider knowledge and so on all of which allow the trolls to "product improve" their agitprop.

Which then appears in its more robust and worked-up version elsewhere in cyberspace.

OK OK that's all complete supposition on my part, but it does make you wonder.
 
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First of all I would like to recall an old story about 'defector' Yurchenko.
Vitaly Yurchenko - Wikipedia

My late Father (KGB colonel, military counter-intelligence) after the 'defection' happened 1 August 1985 was extremely upset. He knew mr.Yurchenko personally and was absolutely sure that he could not be a defector. Later it appeared that my Father was right.


Of course it was a staged 'defection' and mr.Yurchenko told the CIA something that they always were aware about or strongly suspected. Now we know that the main objective was to protect indirectly Aldrich Ames - the most valuable source of information for Moscow, even at expense of other less valuable informants.
But of course my Father was not aware that it was fake 'defection'. I asked naively - will be he killed by Soviet agents as a traitor. My Father answered that there is unwritten rule, unwritten accord between Soviet and Western secret services. Personal terrorism, killings of agents, abductions are not used. Defectors can be captured, abducted, killed only on national territory or territory of allies.
Returning to your question I propose 2 versions.
1. The West violated the unwritten accord and Russian agent was killed by CIA or MI5/MI6. Maybe in Syria or another country. So mr.Putin could order killing of mr.Skripal as a retaliation and warning.
2. Mr.Putin could order mr.Skripal to poison himself. Yes, in theory it is possible. Mr.Skripal could be not double but triple agent and work for Moscow living in Salisbury. So mr.Skripal poisoned himself and his daughter using rather harmless poison to accuse later British secret services in the poisoning. But the British disclosed this scheme and
Blah blah blah, refusal to accept the most obvious explanation.

Oh, and in case you are unaware, quite a lot has changed since 1985.
 
1. The West violated the unwritten accord and Russian agent was killed by CIA or MI5/MI6. Maybe in Syria or another country. So mr.Putin could order killing of mr.Skripal as a retaliation and warning.
2. Mr.Putin could order mr.Skripal to poison himself. Yes, in theory it is possible. Mr.Skripal could be not double but triple agent and work for Moscow living in Salisbury. So mr.Skripal poisoned himself and his daughter using rather harmless poison to accuse later British secret services in the poisoning. But the British disclosed this scheme and

Go for simpler explanations Sergei. In the first instance, a simple killing would suffice. The second explanation is a little lacking in credibility. We also know that a harmless poison was not used. OPCW has identified Novichok class agent. Unless you completely deny OPCW, the harmless poison etc. is a busted flush. As we know, the Buzz agent was a control.
 
The rate of shitski vomiting out of St Petersburg seems to have reduced. I wonder if weekend overtime has been reduced.
@KGB_resident went quiet for a while- at least on this thread- after he was pulled up for impugning the integrity of an individual police officer, here:-
So she (PMTM) ordered to 'change' the result of analysis. Later A234 NA was added to the blood samples. Nick Bailey merely played a role of 'poisoned'.
He’s now sticking to his tedious “Lestrade” put-down. He really is a desperate weasel-worded little sneak. At least he’s on the right side- ie not ours.
 
Go for simpler explanations Sergei. In the first instance, a simple killing would suffice. The second explanation is a little lacking in credibility. We also know that a harmless poison was not used. OPCW has identified Novichok class agent. Unless you completely deny OPCW, the harmless poison etc. is a busted flush. As we know, the Buzz agent was a control.
Well propose more simple explanation.
OPCW planted BZ to one of blood samples. It was confirmed.
Could specialists from Porton Down plant A234 to blood samples?
It can not be excluded.
 
2. Mr.Putin could order mr.Skripal to poison himself. Yes, in theory it is possible. Mr.Skripal could be not double but triple agent and work for Moscow living in Salisbury. So mr.Skripal poisoned himself and his daughter using rather harmless poison to accuse later British secret services in the poisoning. But the British disclosed this scheme and 'Novichok strory'.
By gum but, you lot are scratching around with this.
 
OPCW planted BZ to one of blood samples. It was confirmed.
Planted is the incorrect use of words. It implies dishonesty. In fact , the BZ was introduced as a control sample. You know this. This is basic scientific methodology. Apart from anything else, it validates other results on the basis of false positives and lazy technicians. I would not expect to ever see lazy technicians at such a lab. but it covers the bases.


Could specialists from Porton Down plant A234 to blood samples?
I do not know and neither do you. As a scientist, you would consider this . However, the OPCW maintains and I believe them, that the evidence chain was clean. This therefore leads back to your argument that the British did it in the first instance. Again, you either discount the OPCW integrity or you don't. You provide evidence or you don't. Otherwise, it is merely an opinion.

It comes down ultimately to who you believe. Within this is the integrity issue.

Most people say that the OPCW is a body with high reputation and integrity. They would not compromise this for the sake of cosying up to UK gov. They do not need to.
 
Well propose more simple explanation.
OPCW planted BZ to one of blood samples. It was confirmed.
Could specialists from Porton Down plant A234 to blood samples?
It can not be excluded.
Stop posting utter shite, you fawning Putin sycophant.

You've been shown the facts but refuse to acknowledge them because they ALL point directly at Russia's bastard leadership.

YFM
 
Planted is the incorrect use of words. It implies dishonesty. In fact , the BZ was introduced as a control sample. You know this. This is basic scientific methodology. Apart from anything else, it validates other results on the basis of false positives and lazy technicians. I would not expect to ever see lazy technicians at such a lab. but it covers the bases.
Well, OPCW experts secretly added BZ to the blood samples
Could Porton Down experts secretly add A234 to the blood samples.
In theory yes. Even if blood samples were taken by OPCW experts directly then A234 could be added later. It can not be excluded.
I do not know and neither do you. As a scientist, you would consider this . However, the OPCW maintains and I believe them, that the evidence chain was clean.
Let's not fool ourselves. OPCW is controlled by Washington through its numerous allies. Procedures in OPCW are not transparent. Who namely (representative of what country) ordered to add BZ to the blood samples? And why namely BZ? The picture of poisoning looks as BZ was used.
As a scientist I would like to say - if there are any doubts then a new experiment is needed to remove them. Ms.Skripal could be sent to Switzerland and blood samples could be taken directly in SpiezLab in presence of British and Russian experts. It would be correct, transparent experiment.
This therefore leads back to your argument that the British did it in the first instance. Again, you either discount the OPCW integrity or you don't. You provide evidence or you don't. Otherwise, it is merely an opinion.
Of course it is an opinion. OPCW procedures and decision making process are not transparent.
It comes down ultimately to who you believe. Within this is the integrity issue.
I believe facts established during fair, transparet procedure.
 
Well, OPCW experts secretly added BZ to the blood samples
I have explained this. There would be precious little point in adding BZ if they told everybody. Can you think why. You are a scientist.
Could Porton Down experts secretly add A234 to the blood samples.
In theory yes. Even if blood samples were taken by OPCW experts directly then A234 could be added later. It can not be excluded.
Opinion. We have been there throughout this thread.

Let's not fool ourselves. OPCW is controlled by Washington through its numerous allies. Procedures in OPCW are not transparent. Who namely (representative of what country) ordered to add BZ to the blood samples?
So, as I suspected, you do not accept the integrity of OPCW. There is nothing to add here.

And why namely BZ? The picture of poisoning looks as BZ was used.
BZ would be used as it has it likely has a similar spectrometry profile to the suspected agent. It would allow comparison but would need rigourous attention to detail. A theory but like so much else here, we need not place the people who put it there on the naughty step unless we wish to elaborate a conspiracy.

The picture of poisoning DOES NOT look as if BZ was used. The picture of containment and clean up DOES NOT look as if BZ was used. Hope that helps. I am not going to go into BZ. You know about it anyway.

Ms.Skripal could be sent to Switzerland and blood samples could be taken directly in SpiezLab in presence of British and Russian experts. It would be correct, transparent experiment.
How would that be then? You really do not get the rights of the individual do you?

I believe facts established during fair, transparet procedure.
No. No , you don't. You believe that by presenting untruths repeatedly, your version of events becomes the truth. The OPCW has conducted a fair and transparent procedure. You do not accept that . A couple of words would suffice.
 
Bearing in mind my "product improvement" hypothesis I think that the responders should begin to exercise their right to indulge in like for like wibble...
I do not know if I can be of help with this.
I have left wibble far to my rear; I am now well into the realms blithering.
 
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