Crime figures up and police numbers at their lowest level since 1985

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Oh please she was streets a head of Cooper/ Balls when HS. And they were then leaving then.
Of course Coppers were never in the same boat as Cuzzies.
Please inform me of the good she did as HS? And don't tell me she got hook hand deported, my god that's about all she did.
She has systematically single handedlly stripped the police to the bare bones at the very time we should be increasing police numbers. But as I said as long as they are looked after, she doesnt give a toss about joe public or the police.
As for money well they always manage to find enough to pay for over seas aid and immigrants.
 
Please inform me of the good she did as HS? And don't tell me she got hook hand deported, my god that's about all she did.
She has systematically single handedlly stripped the police to the bare bones at the very time we should be increasing police numbers. But as I said as long as they are looked after, she doesnt give a toss about joe public or the police.
As for money well they always manage to find enough to pay for over seas aid and immigrants.
IMHO she at least tried. The other factor is she was not culpable of the mess left by Labour. She did not rip apart our border controls as occurred under cooper or the Eagle sisters. Far more damage was done to policing by Labour with the insistence that we were all racist. The police never had to face up to 20-25k redundancies in a few years. Morale was already at rock bottom before 08. Our political masters were always going to keep a lid on the numbers no matter which side of the fence they were on.
As for overseas aid until the Government has the guts to tell the UN to stuff what is really a colossal bribe to/ for industry it will remain. It's seen as cost effective . Biggest problem the police now have is how much to pay 110k plus "heroes "
 
I seem to recall that Labour recruited an additional 15 that 20 thousand police officers from 97 to 2010.

When the Conservatives got in, they openly said that they were going to cut police numbers back to the levels as they were in 1997. They did what they said they were going to do.

There are about 20 thousand fewer police officers compared to ten years ago.

The Tories cut public services, that's always been the same.
 
Well that's how it looks like to me. This PM has a nerve how could she stand at that dispatch box and state coppers are better off now than they were in 2010? This woman is getting worse, the worse Home Secretary in living history and now she is closing in on Cameron's performance at number 10. Pathetic spin which is doing my blood pressure no good and I don't even work any more. It just makes me angry knowing how difficult the job is and how poorly they are paid and backed up.

No wonder coppers are leaving.
The bosses are very busy portraying resignations as individual problems

"The government should hang their heads in shame" - PC tells chief constable GMP is at breaking point in ...

And they are obsequious sticking to the party line.
IMG_20170914_071008.jpg

Shame that this was immediately contradicted by the Superintendents association, and i have seen at least one force federation head send an email out asking if the question of industrial rights should be balloted again.
 
@Gout Man

This is worth a read

Government's pay rise figures are a joke

In the history of the poor relations between Mrs May and the police, I cannot remember her being accused of a direct lie.

The Government stating that police officers have had a 32% pay rise since 2010 is a joke – and is in fact a downright lie when it comes to the majority of officers, Vice Chair Calum Macleod said.
The numbers are contained in the press release.

Anecdotally, all I can say is another of my friends resigned last month.

From one office where I worked, of the 4 police officers employed there; only one is left. All have left for BAe or various high tech employers.

So when the bosses talk about retention of "in demand skills", they do not understand the terrain. None of the officers from that little team left because of pay - we knew we weren't going to be paid what we could have been outside. We liked being one of the "good guys".

When that feeling is destroyed by cockwomble management and a government that clearly just does not care apart from parroting "crime is down"; the job will not retain people, other than those motivated to remain (for whatever reason.....) or those without options.

But they might have to contract those who have left back in a few years, when they have less and less detectives or skills they will not or cannot attract, train, or retain.

But don't worry, it is obviously individual weakness of people like me who left - otherwise, we just might have to concede a systemic problem in the police service. And as we have seen the bosses respond well to being criticised.

 
@jinnandtonic


If you've not seen it before, check out the full unload at about 40 seconds.

Vive La Republique, et 'have some mes Amis'.
I seem to recall that Labour recruited an additional 15 that 20 thousand police officers from 97 to 2010.

When the Conservatives got in, they openly said that they were going to cut police numbers back to the levels as they were in 1997. They did what they said they were going to do.

There are about 20 thousand fewer police officers compared to ten years ago.

The Tories cut public services, that's always been the same.
Do you want to pay more tax?
 
Do you want to pay more tax?
Is it going to be spent on something other than subsidy for MP's Mars Bars on expenses claims?

If I thought the Govt could spend the money it raises properly, I wouldn't mind.

And as I have said before, I wouldn't mind a bit of honesty from the bosses (I include the contemptuous ACPO in this).

"We're broke, the job's fucked, sorry we cannot provide policing services properly, we're just sticking a plaster on it until a future date".

But no one ever got elected or promoted for saying that.
 
Is it going to be spent on something other than subsidy for MP's Mars Bars on expenses claims?

If I thought the Govt could spend the money it raises properly, I wouldn't mind.

And as I have said before, I wouldn't mind a bit of honesty from the bosses (I include the contemptuous ACPO in this).

"We're broke, the job's fucked, sorry we cannot provide policing services properly, we're just sticking a plaster on it until a future date".

But no one ever got elected or promoted for saying that.
I would happily pay more tax if it didn't go on the NHS or Welfare.

Indeed but banging on about pay and T&C’s, then having a wtf moment when they realise that the pay rise has to cone from exisiting budgets.

Saw a interview on SKY News with a copper who was one of the first graduate entrants 40 years ago and he was refreshingly honest, “the time to worry about the police is when we stop moaning”.
 
I would happily pay more tax if it didn't go on the NHS or Welfare.

Indeed but banging on about pay and T&C’s, then having a wtf moment when they realise that the pay rise has to cone from exisiting budgets.

Saw a interview on SKY News with a copper who was one of the first graduate entrants 40 years ago and he was refreshingly honest, “the time to worry about the police is when we stop moaning”.
I did once say that the UK police has moaned since Peel wore a top hat.

(That said, I had never seen such a level of lack of confidence in "leadership" at the time when I left. It was almost a dialogue of the deaf - those of us on the factory floor thought the bosses were deliberately blind to reality, and the bosses probably just thought we were whinging and lacked commitment).

But, interestingly the Fed hasn't joined the dots either.

So this pay thing will be found from existing budgets.

Even the fed's own website says that the reason TASER hasn't been rolled out is due to not being able to find funding....

How would a further rollout be funded?

Former Home Secretary Theresa May highlighted that one of the issues with a further Taser rollout is how it will be funded due to the tight budgets the majority of forces have to balance. The PFEW has and will continue to lobby for funding to be found from the Home Office to support the move if that is what a chief constable decides
Taser

So somewhere there is disconnect.

It can be found for a one off pay-thing, but cannot be found for an operational issue?
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
@Gout Man

This is worth a read

Government's pay rise figures are a joke

In the history of the poor relations between Mrs May and the police, I cannot remember her being accused of a direct lie.



The numbers are contained in the press release.

Anecdotally, all I can say is another of my friends resigned last month.

From one office where I worked, of the 4 police officers employed there; only one is left. All have left for BAe or various high tech employers.

So when the bosses talk about retention of "in demand skills", they do not understand the terrain. None of the officers from that little team left because of pay - we knew we weren't going to be paid what we could have been outside. We liked being one of the "good guys".

When that feeling is destroyed by cockwomble management and a government that clearly just does not care apart from parroting "crime is down"; the job will not retain people, other than those motivated to remain (for whatever reason.....) or those without options.

But they might have to contract those who have left back in a few years, when they have less and less detectives or skills they will not or cannot attract, train, or retain.

But don't worry, it is obviously individual weakness of people like me who left - otherwise, we just might have to concede a systemic problem in the police service. And as we have seen the bosses respond well to being criticised.

My god that link was worth a read. I hope they send an e mail to every fed rep at every nick so they can forward it to every copper then before we leave Europe vote to strike! Never thought I'd say it but what with everything else they have cut it's the only way this government will listen!
 
I seem to recall that Labour recruited an additional 15 that 20 thousand police officers from 97 to 2010.

When the Conservatives got in, they openly said that they were going to cut police numbers back to the levels as they were in 1997. They did what they said they were going to do.

There are about 20 thousand fewer police officers compared to ten years ago.

The Tories cut public services, that's always been the same.
I don't know about that, they certainly boosted numbers of plastic plod and the miltary has been cut back as well and I don't recall transferring to the Police on better pay and conditions. I do know that some five hundred of HMCE staff transferred over to HMRC but that BA had worse. So in effect the police returned to what they were, fewer miltary and practically no borders.
 
Never thought I'd say it but what with everything else they have cut it's the only way this government will listen!
Welcome to the Coppers world in 1975 when I left. £50 a week. But I seem to have a knock on effect. What happened in 76/77 when the pay rises came through- they couldn't stop recruiting. I might be a year or so out
 
Ihlig

Indeed but banging on about pay and T&C’s, then having a wtf moment when they realise that the pay rise has to cone from exisiting budgets.
That, sirrah was the nub of my argument to the CPSA in respect of pay. Instead they squandered the subbies on ethnic/gender issues rather than getting a decent across the board basic(pensionable) settlement. Yeah you would get subbies, improved subbies- none of which was pensionable. Their failure was highlighted in 2006 when we merged with IR when it emerged that staff in that department were an average of 10K a year better off than us. I had to wait three years for assimilation despite my seniority in grade. Now get this, this was against the backdrop that IR was not meeting it's own requirement in terms of collection.
 
I would happily pay more tax if it didn't go on the NHS or Welfare.

Indeed but banging on about pay and T&C’s, then having a wtf moment when they realise that the pay rise has to cone from exisiting budgets.

Saw a interview on SKY News with a copper who was one of the first graduate entrants 40 years ago and he was refreshingly honest, “the time to worry about the police is when we stop moaning”.
I totally understand your comment about where the money comes from for pay rises BUT The Government shouldn't be trumpeting amazing pay deals when it fully knows that because of the funding restrictions placed on it by them, CCs will have to choose between funding the rise or recruiting more much needed officers.
 
I totally understand your comment about where the money comes from for pay rises BUT The Government shouldn't be trumpeting amazing pay deals when it fully knows that because of the funding restrictions placed on it by them, CCs will have to choose between funding the rise or recruiting more much needed officers.
Understand all that, but we as a society of earners either pay more tax, or accept the level of service.
 
Understand all that, but we as a society of earners either pay more tax, or accept the level of service.
That's true - but at the moment, I would allege that there is a determined effort to pretend to you that the police have done more with less and so on.

That simply is, on what I saw, not the case.

But heaven help anyone who blows the whistle.

Met tried to silence PC whistleblower who exposed crime figures scandal

PC Patrick later resigned, after being threatened with Gross Misconduct disciplinary proceedings.
Met Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has previously said there was a "truth" to PC Patrick's allegations.

Following PC Patrick's resignation, Scotland Yard made no further comment.
Whistleblower resigns from police

So nothing to see here, move on please.
 
Understand all that, but we as a society of earners either pay more tax, or accept the level of service.
It is possible to do more with less, provided that the initial system is a lumbering and inefficient monster.

Right now we have a system whereby police forces are more or less separate entities; separate budgets, separate hierarchies, separate sourcing and so on. Duplication of effort right across the board; there is no reason why we should have so many procurement and stores departments all doing the same thing right across the board.

Amalgamate all police forces into administrative entity with separate force-areas and a lot of back-office functions currently duplicated can all be merged, and better deals from suppliers based on exclusivity of contract can then be negotiated.

In terms of actual law enforcement, we need to stop fighting battles that we cannot ever win. The War on Drugs is not winnable. Not even totalitarian police states have ever managed to eliminate drugs; most have made their problems worse. What we ought to do here is accept that as long as an adult doesn't hurt anyone else, what they ingest is their own business.

So, instead of fighting to prohibit all drugs, legalise most in controlled settings sort of like pubs, where children are strictly forbidden from going, and permit the almost harmless ones to be sold (again, adults only) in drug shops. That immediately crashes the street price of drugs, and where opiates are concerned would crowd out heroin with less harmful, cheaper substitutes like laudanum. Crashing street drug prices brings this black market out in the open, and this is the only thing that will hurt drug barons.

Once you do this, you can then treat addicts in much the same way as alcoholics; they're sick, not bad, and they're mostly off police radar.
 
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