Crime figures up and police numbers at their lowest level since 1985


Yet another cretinous and ill thought out May directive that is going to be kicked into touch. Not before time.

At least this Government is realising that their previous leader was disastrous for Policing.

Once pensions are reinstated and direct entry to Supt is quietly discontinued by Forces, there won’t be much left of her attempts to undermine policing.

In 5 to 10 years time, we should be back to 2010 numbers.
 

Yet another cretinous and ill thought out May directive that is going to be kicked into touch. Not before time.

At least this Government is realising that their previous leader was disastrous for Policing.

Once pensions are reinstated and direct entry to Supt is quietly discontinued by Forces, there won’t be much left of her attempts to undermine policing.

In 5 to 10 years time, we should be back to 2010 numbers.
I would like to see some new prisons, a return to the death penalty and/or Hard Labour and a new far harder criminal justice system, where criminals suddenly decide that prison is an appalling thought.
 
I would like to see some new prisons, a return to the death penalty and/or Hard Labour and a new far harder criminal justice system, where criminals suddenly decide that prison is an appalling thought.
I will settle for some more colleagues and a CJS that can process, incarcerate and attempt to rehabilitate/monitor offenders.

You can’t undial 10 years just like that.
 

Chalkythedog

Old-Salt
At least with that cant the blood-soaked Blair you had some idea what he was up to. Cameron and May, leaders of the party of law n' order just said one thing and did another. But the depth of their dissembling on law enforcement and Brexit is breathtaking.
 
I can see the degree requirement being quietly dropped as well (aside from the wails from the Collage of Policing), I hear that various forces are struggling to recruit degree quality candidates who are also of the still very much required TSG Meathead variety.
Or in the wise words of a retired 'character':

"There will be no room at the inn now for the decent, good-willed, well intentioned, hard-working local boy or girl who is good enough and desirous enough to want to serve their community in the office of constable,"
"I have nothing against degrees or people who hold them but, in my limited experience, the police need to be representative of the people they serve. Having a degree is really not important and certainly not the deciding factor."
 
I would like to see some new prisons, a return to the death penalty and/or Hard Labour and a new far harder criminal justice system, where criminals suddenly decide that prison is an appalling thought.
If you were serious about reducing crime rates, you'd give up on the road to failure that is deterence through old-skule low-budget hard-time punishment by incarceration, and stert thinking seriously about how to remedy the conditions that give rise to petty criminals, and how to invest in a system that rehabilitates from, rather than reinforces, the behaviours of those who by one route or another find their way into the sub-Victorian monstrosity we know as the penal system.

It seems to have paid off for a substantial part of Scandinavia - yet us clever old islander Brits flat refuse to stop doing the same counter-productive hard and nasty things while expecting better results if we just do them more harderer and more nastierer . . . . . :roll:
 
If you were serious about reducing crime rates, you'd give up on the road to failure that is deterence through old-skule low-budget hard-time punishment by incarceration, and stert thinking seriously about how to remedy the conditions that give rise to petty criminals, and how to invest in a system that rehabilitates from, rather than reinforces, the behaviours of those who by one route or another find their way into the sub-Victorian monstrosity we know as the penal system.

It seems to have paid off for a substantial part of Scandinavia - yet us clever old islander Brits flat refuse to stop doing the same counter-productive hard and nasty things while expecting better results if we just do them more harderer and more nastierer . . . . . :roll:
The answer isn’t binary, there is room for both carrot and stick. Saying that, I agree that the seeds that grow crime must be eradicated - no/shit parenting, lack of values, lack of community, PC aversion to challenging cultural crap, mass cowardice in refusing to challenge poor behaviour and say no.
 
Way too many videos on YouTube where the police are trying to bully and threaten people out of their right to not give their details if they are not suspected of a crime, it seems the favourite trick is to claim that not giving your details when asked but not legally required to do so is grounds for suspicion and so allows them to demand your details under threat of arrest. Pretty sure that is an abuse of the law ?
 
The recruiting drive to find 20,000 new police officers starts today.
The advert tagline - "Be A Force for all"
I mentioned this new recruitment drive to a police officer the other day. In her opinion paying people to get a (very transferable) degree will result in a "bunch of teenagers" joining and then signing off as soon as they have the certificate. She also made the point that the pay whilst training/studying was not enough to tempt anyone over school leaver age to sign up.
 
If you were serious about reducing crime rates, you'd give up on the road to failure that is deterence through old-skule low-budget hard-time punishment by incarceration, and stert thinking seriously about how to remedy the conditions that give rise to petty criminals, and how to invest in a system that rehabilitates from, rather than reinforces, the behaviours of those who by one route or another find their way into the sub-Victorian monstrosity we know as the penal system.

It seems to have paid off for a substantial part of Scandinavia - yet us clever old islander Brits flat refuse to stop doing the same counter-productive hard and nasty things while expecting better results if we just do them more harderer and more nastierer . . . . . :roll:
I tend to agree with that. The one thing criminals fear most is losing the proceeds, the only real issue is rehabilitation. It’s unquanifiable. But we have start thinking about reducing prisoner numbers overall and getting some form of contribution back from offenders.
 
If you were serious about reducing crime rates, you'd give up on the road to failure that is deterence through old-skule low-budget hard-time punishment by incarceration, and stert thinking seriously about how to remedy the conditions that give rise to petty criminals, and how to invest in a system that rehabilitates from, rather than reinforces, the behaviours of those who by one route or another find their way into the sub-Victorian monstrosity we know as the penal system.

It seems to have paid off for a substantial part of Scandinavia - yet us clever old islander Brits flat refuse to stop doing the same counter-productive hard and nasty things while expecting better results if we just do them more harderer and more nastierer . . . . . :roll:
We don't live in Scandinavia, don't have the same conditions to operate in, or the same population sizes and densities, which is where crime proliferates.. It baffles me why intelligent people find something that works in one country and can convince themselves, that it can work in another.

My view is each country requires a different level of carrot and stick. In the United kingdom, we've had decades of weakness, the prison system even with more officers won't be able to take back control and the CJS is away with the pixies in love with itself and processes to be concerned about public safety being its paramount job.

Punishment or Rehabiliation its the eternal argument, where punishment is now absent from the system and a the core of a breakdown in law and order.. The fact our plod had to morph into educated graduates dispensing homily and folksy wisdom is a reaction to that breakdown i.e. the plod are under manned and terrified.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Way too many videos on YouTube where the police are trying to bully and threaten people out of their right to not give their details if they are not suspected of a crime, it seems the favourite trick is to claim that not giving your details when asked but not legally required to do so is grounds for suspicion and so allows them to demand your details under threat of arrest. Pretty sure that is an abuse of the law ?
You haven’t heard of an ancient police act have you?











The Ways and Means Act circa 1829.
 
We don't live in Scandinavia, don't have the same conditions to operate in, or the same population sizes and densities, which is where crime proliferates.. It baffles me why intelligent people find something that works in one country and can convince themselves, that it can work in another
Let me un-baffle you.

In order for it to work here, you need to exert Leadership, over a protracted period of time across much of society, to change attitudes: not the least of which is to lead Ordinary Decent Express Readers away from the notion that Criminals Are All Scum And We Should Lock Them All Up And Throw Away The Key etcetera . . . :roll:
 
Let me un-baffle you.

In order for it to work here, you need to exert Leadership, over a protracted period of time across much of society, to change attitudes: not the least of which is to lead Ordinary Decent Express Readers away from the notion that Criminals Are All Scum And We Should Lock Them All Up And Throw Away The Key etcetera . . . :roll:
I’m not in any way disagreeing with you but have to ask the simple, yet complex, question - how?
 
Let me un-baffle you.

In order for it to work here, you need to exert Leadership, over a protracted period of time across much of society, to change attitudes: not the least of which is to lead Ordinary Decent Express Readers away from the notion that Criminals Are All Scum And We Should Lock Them All Up And Throw Away The Key etcetera . . . :roll:
Equally you have to accept that a % are such scum ? and the problem with your argument, is the seeming inability to differentiate one from another and apply unpalatable alternatives to those who don't want to reform.....

Carrot and stick, who gets what and in what proportion... The present system has no stick, just locking people up is not a stick its enforced bed rest.
 
If you were serious about reducing crime rates, you'd give up on the road to failure that is deterence through old-skule low-budget hard-time punishment by incarceration, and stert thinking seriously about how to remedy the conditions that give rise to petty criminals, and how to invest in a system that rehabilitates from, rather than reinforces, the behaviours of those who by one route or another find their way into the sub-Victorian monstrosity we know as the penal system.

It seems to have paid off for a substantial part of Scandinavia - yet us clever old islander Brits flat refuse to stop doing the same counter-productive hard and nasty things while expecting better results if we just do them more harderer and more nastierer . . . . . :roll:
A charming chap who sexually assaulted and murdered an 89 year old woman in her own home, then complained to his girlfriend he'd only managed to rob his victim of £100, has just been sentenced to a minimum of 34 years in jail. God knows how much that will cost the taxpayer, but I'm willing to bet a short rope and a long drop would be significantly cheaper. Even factoring in the cost of equipment and training a new class of Alberts.
 

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