Crime figures up and police numbers at their lowest level since 1985

MrBane

LE
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Not sure I agree, we get juveniles being detained in custody all the time. Maybe 14, definitely enough 15 year olds going through. 10 is too young for anything less than a really serious crime. Remands or leaving them in the bin overnight are rare - they have to be dealt with asap, but age is not a barrier to being arrested.

Your options are limited on the street, you can't spot fine them or do restorative justice without an appropriate adult, usually family; arrest is pretty much the only resolution. It's the bit afterwards - youth court, youth offending teams and all that where the system shakes.
Mmmm.... This might be a crossed wires in terms of terminology if you're an English force.. When I say 'held in custody' I mean kept in a cell for court the next lawful day, which is the standard practice for an adult who commits a crime punishable by imprisonment that merits it.

We always arrest the wee shits, it's just what happens thereafter. Arrest means nothing, it's the punishment, which is ultimately take them to their parents and charge them in front of the parents. You might at a push get to report them to the Children's Panel, but normally the Family Protection Unit updates you to say it's an Intervention and they get a naughty step talk.
 
Agreed with all of your post, but in reference to the above, that is where this country falls down.

In the UK, again, specifically Scotland but it's across the country, Juvenile's (Under the age of 18) are never, ever held custody for an offence unless it's something along the lines of murder.

So if you catch someone at age 15, who has just punched a random bystander to the face, they'll get taken home to the parents and given an Early Effective Intervention warning, which gets flagged up to partners such as social work services, etc.

Nothing happens to them.

The more serious offences may get referred to the Children's Panel, but they're toothless as well.

I know of one lad who's 16 years old, and should really by now have around thirty to forty previous convictions, but has a clean record because the system doesn't understand that age is not a barrier to being a little shit.

Also, our Crown Office & Procurator Fiscal service is so ineffective and backlogged, that a basic shoplifting case to the value of £80 can take two years to appear in court. I recently had one citation for a fairly serious sexual offence that happened four years ago.

The whole system needs to be scrapped and built from the ground up, with more immediate punitive penalties such as on the spot fines, etc. The fines are good as they come straight out their benefits, so they notice that. Community service is a waste of time, as it's just a **** about.

When I was in the barracks one day, I spotted two Turkish looking fellows in hi vis, picking up rocks from a demolished block and putting them in a skip. Turns out they were kiddy fiddlers doing payback service, but doing it with us. That's the way forward. Bring them into a disciplined organisation, put them under our care and let us use them for shit jobs around camp. They get pushed hard - the lad covering them was shouting at them and generally giving them a hard time, and we benefit directly at no cost to Joe public.

Meh. Whole thing is a joke.
The effect of the system being so utterly worthless when it comes to punishing violent offenders is that some people are cutting out the middle man and doing it themselves. I know of one little shit-bag in my area with a record that covers everything from vandelism to hitting someone with a baseball bat. Never spent a day in jail, but he was discovered in his own stair with a knife stuck in his back. Unfortunately, he didn't bleed out. When questioned, he claimed to have, "slipped and fallen on the knife".

A woman who kept being Forced Moved from council houses because she was a violent alchoholic was eventually placed in one of the rougher blocks of flats. She lasted a few months, then ended up beaten to a pulp after pissing off the neighbours.

Criminals in Scotland already regard the police and so-called justice system with contempt. Sadly, real people are starting to feel the same way...
 
Thanks everyone, I really enjoyed this post - with apologies to those who are negatively affected by the realities of the situation.

I remember the old "sus" laws (Kent and London) and received "an education" several times from BOB, sometimes deserved and sometimes not. One of my best experiences was being stopped by a traffic officer in Birkenhead when I was almost home after travelling up from my base in Colchester - after expecting some negative comment (about myself or my crappy old car) - I was delighted to be complimented on the state of my Ford Corsair and asked if I wanted to sell my car. I did about a year later when I was posted to BFG.

Now, I have a couple of friends over here who are former Bobbies who decry the state of play in the UK (Met, Cheshire and Merseyside) and are very happy that they are out here with their pensions.

A lot of what you are reporting as everyday just doesn't happen here but that's not to say that some serious sh1t doesn't go down daily (and reported in glorious technicolour in local language papers!). Don't believe what you read in the Daily Snail (which is possibly why it is banned here), the vast majority of people here are very friendly and both family and community responsibility are top priority (but do watch out if you make someone lose "face" - deliberately or accidentally!).

I'm probably a little biased as we have several RTP in our family, from newer officers up to the higher echelons, however I've not had one bad run-in with any officer during the many years I've been here - even when I've pushed it.

Genuine crime figures and RTP resource requests are very hard to find here, even if you can read Thai, but we (Thai and international family and friends) have had some very lively debates on both - I shall be glad to pass on the contents of this thread in our next chat (this weekend!).

Thanks again all, I'm glad I chose this as my first thread to join - sorry it's not constructive from me (this time).
 
Spot on, pretty much the same where I work, except I'm on a rural patch and we often work with 2-3 a shift when we're supposed to have 6.
 
The obvious step would have been to merge Local Authority Civil Enforcement Officers and PCSOs into a town/borough police force similar to many local US Sheriffs Departments; the Police would resist this bitterly but their future lies in something akin to the State Police forces in the US.
I read somewhere long ago that many local authorities still retain the power to dismiss the local police service and raise their own constabularies. I think a Met Commisioner was threatened with just this by a London Borough unhappy with their efforts in the 1980s

Is this the still the case?
 
Interesting aside, or not as the case may be, my wife and I were watching Neighbourhood Blues this AM. One of the incidents shown involved the search for a youth who had missed his court appearance for begging. Four police officers involved in said search which caused 'er indoors to wonder, with the cut backs in police numbers and funding, whether the crime warranted the use of 4 officers. I had no sensible answer to be honest, the youth was eventually fined £259.00 which he would probably have recouped in a days begging.
Because 3 of the officers want to be on TV?
 
So if I report a burglary/break in and forget to mention the burglar fell down the stairs due to the trauma of fighting for my life the police won't rock up for a few days at the very least ?

Ooopsss.
Gives you time to get rid of the body.

And do your bit for crime reduction as every citizen should.
 
I see the Met is being looked after, well it does have to look after those pesky Politicians who of course want to ensure their own safety.
£50 million anti-terror police base is being built in central London
snip "A new £50 million base for armed police officers is to be built in central London to help protect the public from terrorism.

The new base will house at least 200 officers and contain a practice firing range, weapons storage and other facilities designed to enable the force’s firearms specialists to hone their shooting and decision making skills.

It will be built in Limehouse and is being located in east London partly to make it easier to keep officers on hand to respond to any future terror attacks in the capital.

The decision to set up the new firearms base comes as the Met continues to expand its firearms capability through the recruitment of 600 extra armed officers.

Once completed that will take the total number of armed officers employed by the Met to 2,800"
.
 
I see the Met is being looked after, well it does have to look after those pesky Politicians who of course want to ensure their own safety.
£50 million anti-terror police base is being built in central London
snip "A new £50 million base for armed police officers is to be built in central London to help protect the public from terrorism.

The new base will house at least 200 officers and contain a practice firing range, weapons storage and other facilities designed to enable the force’s firearms specialists to hone their shooting and decision making skills.

It will be built in Limehouse and is being located in east London partly to make it easier to keep officers on hand to respond to any future terror attacks in the capital.

The decision to set up the new firearms base comes as the Met continues to expand its firearms capability through the recruitment of 600 extra armed officers.

Once completed that will take the total number of armed officers employed by the Met to 2,800"
.
Houses of Parliament have their very own Praetorian Guard. How very nice for them. An what does it tells us about their mindset, hmm?
 
So if I report a burglary/break in and forget to mention the burglar fell down the stairs due to the trauma of fighting for my life the police won't rock up for a few days at the very least ?

Ooopsss.
Even better, if you live in an odd numbered house you've got a perfect excuse for not calling the police, you don't expect them to turn up if you report a break in
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
And I see you lucky buggers still working will now get a pay rise and a bonus amounting to a wallet busting 2%. That's when the inflation figures released today came to 2.9%. Nice, still better than the nurses so best stop complaining.

At least my Pension is actually linked.
 
And I see you lucky buggers still working will now get a pay rise and a bonus amounting to a wallet busting 2%. That's when the inflation figures released today came to 2.9%. Nice, still better than the nurses so best stop complaining.

At least my Pension is actually linked.
The Nurses and many other professions pay reviews under the "new system" have not come around so it's difficult to compare.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
The Nurses and many other professions pay reviews under the "new system" have not come around so it's difficult to compare.
No doubt they are not holding their breath.
 
I mean, I know SOME services, like the LFB 999 control, have been handed out to Crapita ...
Ah, the 'C' word. The main problem, as I see it, is tail wagging dog. And a reluctance for COG to deal with issues, rather to ride them out till their next post.

Don't get me wrong, in principle, I agree with outsourcing quite a bit of back office non operational function. GMP employs its own cleaners - why? When you take into account recruitment costs, management overhead, etc. It should be a managed service.

The problem is the Force is probably 20 years behind even the Civil Service, let alone the private sector, in effectively managing service providers.
 
I see the Met is being looked after .........
I have to disagree, this isn't the met being looked after, but the CT branch which has a separate budget and does a semi-separate role. The building is wholly necessary to have, but don't confuse it with the met suddenly being flush.

A guardian article states 24 Police Stations have been sold, along with a number of other properties and a huge chunk of Hendon. More are being lined up to go. The met gaining one very specialist building does not replace the other ones lost.

The uplift in firearms officers is an internal recruitment drive. It is syphoning off the experienced backbone of many response teams (as well as neighbourhoods and other units), leaving a skills shortage (notably taser, driving; to a lesser extent search and public order) and fewer uniform cops doing non-specialist roles.
 
AFAIK, the only variable that ever has an effect on crime rates are numbers of police on streets. Not death penalties, not draconian sentencing, but cops in uniform.

Whatever you think of Rudy Giuliani politically, he managed to transform New York from a murderous hellhole into a thriving, low crime city simply by getting more police on the streets.
NYPD has 34,000 uniformed officers out there.
LAPD, the next largest US police force, has 9,000
 
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