Cressida Dick looks Stuffed

Not really sure what Harry and co expect PCs and Sergeants to be able to do to voice their displeasure of the higher ups in a disciplined organisation. They can’t strike, most can’t afford to lose their jobs and working to rule would hurt them more than it would the bosses. For example were there to be a blanket refusal to work OT by bandits like myself, they’d simply cancel restdays or gut other departments to cover it thereby providing an even crapper service to the public.
I’ve grumbled to everyone of rank who’s ever made the mistake of asking me my opinion on the state of the job and response policing in particular and to be fair a few do take the time to explain that everything I can think of to improve the job would either be political suicide or cost money that just isn’t available.
 

Awol

LE
The whole police firearms thing looks to those outside the job to be more important than it actually is.
If it ever came to it and things got to stage where those on the ground wanted to show their displeasure, then the handing back of driving authourisations would mean the whole shebang would grind to a complete halt in about 10mins. Not as sexy sounding as guns n shit, but 100% more effective.

Disclaimer.... I have no knowledge of policing whatsoever ((except a good mate who was a cop in Bridgend), but I would imagine that if the armed cops suddenly downed their tools, there would be contingency plans to bring in the military to replace them. I don’t think the Royal Family would show a flicker of fear if they were unprotected (they do have Attack Corgis after all), but the snakes at Westminster would be crapping themselves.

The army have been deployed recently to support civilian plod. As we all know the situation arose after a recent terrorist attack in London, and it’s a sad indication of the times that I’m ashamed to say that I can’t remember which one it was (possibly the Westminster Bridge attack or the one where one very brave copper outside the Houses of Parliament stood alone against an armed Islamic nutter and made the ultimate sacrifice while one disgusting senior officer hid in his car).

One things for sure, the greasy, soulless politicians that run this country, aren’t going to risk being unprotected. There are probably even contingency plans to the contingency plans that mean that if Plod down tools, followed by the army downing tools, they probably have the Girl Guides on standby.
 

TamH70

MIA
The whole police firearms thing looks to those outside the job to be more important than it actually is.


Disclaimer.... I have no knowledge of policing whatsoever ((except a good mate who was a cop in Bridgend), but I would imagine that if the armed cops suddenly downed their tools, there would be contingency plans to bring in the military to replace them. I don’t think the Royal Family would show a flicker of fear if they were unprotected (they do have Attack Corgis after all), but the snakes at Westminster would be crapping themselves.

The army have been deployed recently to support civilian plod. As we all know the situation arose after a recent terrorist attack in London, and it’s a sad indication of the times that I’m ashamed to say that I can’t remember which one it was (possibly the Westminster Bridge attack or the one where one very brave copper outside the Houses of Parliament stood alone against an armed Islamic nutter and made the ultimate sacrifice while one disgusting senior officer hid in his car).

One things for sure, the greasy, soulless politicians that run this country, aren’t going to risk being unprotected. There are probably even contingency plans to the contingency plans that mean that if Plod down tools, followed by the army downing tools, they probably have the Girl Guides on standby.

I would probably find the Girl Guides more scary, to be honest. They're Saint Trinian's Girls in blue pastel uniforms already. Giving them properly-sized guns would be the icing on the cake.
 
Having read this thread, and this one:


I've come to the conclusion that London needs neither a Mayor, nor a Met Police chief.

The city needs a Military Governor and a Provost Marshal. Neither of these would have to be recruited from the British armed forces. In fact, there are better candidates for both jobs in other more...'pragmatic' militaries around the world.
 

Chef

LE
Having read this thread, and this one:


I've come to the conclusion that London needs neither a Mayor, nor a Met Police chief.

The city needs a Military Governor and a Provost Marshal. Neither of these would have to be recruited from the British armed forces. In fact, there are better candidates for both jobs in other more...'pragmatic' militaries around the world.
Someone like Victor McLaglen for PM.
 
Started in 1993 with the Sheehy report under Kenneth Clark, Harry. Fed rolled over. Even before that in about 1991/92 it started with Waddington changing Rent allowance to Housing allowance and making it taxable.

Modern plod have worse terms of service than before the Edmund Davies report in 1978.
I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this first point, over 90% of the Sheehy recommendations were rejected and batted off.
The Federation of the '80s and '90s were very different to the Federation of today.
A public campaign by the Federation and heavy petitioning of MPs led to Michael Howard, the Home Sec bottling it and binning it.
I was getting rent aid until the day I retired and it was never taxable.
Some county forces found it easier for accounting reasons to tax it at source, it made it easier for them, but in the following April it all came back in the form of a Compensatory Grant.
Not to be disclosed or breathed about to other halves.

Through my rose-tinted glasses I do also recall that Policing in the late '70s rewarded first year Pcs with the very generous sum of £45 gross weekly, about £30 net a week after 34% of basic rate tax was taken off.
On a relief of 24 blokes there were 22 that either cycled or walked to work and not for fitness reasons either.
They also all (except for Inspectors and above) lived in the section house or married quarters so there was no rent aid to claim.
Using an online calculator from the LSE they tell me that £45 a week in 1977 is worth £263 a week today.
So a first year Pc these days should be on £13,676 p.a. perhaps?
The Federation tell us all that a 1st year Pc earns £21,402 in 2021.

Like I say I think we should agree to disagree on this but some of our readers may wish to read this link and decide for themselves as to the true picture as to who is/was worse off.


(We also had the support of the public then too)
 
I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this first point, over 90% of the Sheehy recommendations were rejected and batted off.
The Federation of the '80s and '90s were very different to the Federation of today.
A public campaign by the Federation and heavy petitioning of MPs led to Michael Howard, the Home Sec bottling it and binning it.
I was getting rent aid until the day I retired and it was never taxable.
Some county forces found it easier for accounting reasons to tax it at source, it made it easier for them, but in the following April it all came back in the form of a Compensatory Grant.
Not to be disclosed or breathed about to other halves.

Through my rose-tinted glasses I do also recall that Policing in the late '70s rewarded first year Pcs with the very generous sum of £45 gross weekly, about £30 net a week after 34% of basic rate tax was taken off.
On a relief of 24 blokes there were 22 that either cycled or walked to work and not for fitness reasons either.
They also all (except for Inspectors and above) lived in the section house or married quarters so there was no rent aid to claim.
Using an online calculator from the LSE they tell me that £45 a week in 1977 is worth £263 a week today.
So a first year Pc these days should be on £13,676 p.a. perhaps?
The Federation tell us all that a 1st year Pc earns £21,402 in 2021.

Like I say I think we should agree to disagree on this but some of our readers may wish to read this link and decide for themselves as to the true picture as to who is/was worse off.


(We also had the support of the public then too)
The section house, I take it, was your equivalent of the barrack block. Are they all gone now?
 

Chef

LE
The section house, I take it, was your equivalent of the barrack block. Are they all gone now?
I would imagine they've gone the way of nurse's housing. The ones in Hampstead are desirable and expensive private housing. All within walking distance of the Royal Free hospital. God alone knows where the nurses live nowadays.
 
I would imagine they've gone the way of nurse's housing. The ones in Hampstead are desirable and expensive private housing. All within walking distance of the Royal Free hospital. God alone knows where the nurses live nowadays.

They probably pay >£600 per month to rent a single room.
 
Through my rose-tinted glasses I do also recall that Policing in the late '70s rewarded first year Pcs with the very generous sum of £45 gross weekly, about £30 net a week after 34% of basic rate tax was taken off.
On a relief of 24 blokes there were 22 that either cycled or walked to work and not for fitness reasons either.
They also all (except for Inspectors and above) lived in the section house or married quarters so there was no rent aid to claim.
Using an online calculator from the LSE they tell me that £45 a week in 1977 is worth £263 a week today.
So a first year Pc these days should be on £13,676 p.a. perhaps?
The Federation tell us all that a 1st year Pc earns £21,402 in 2021.

Like I say I think we should agree to disagree on this but some of our readers may wish to read this link and decide for themselves as to the true picture as to who is/was worse off.


(We also had the support of the public then too)

Squaddies and nurses were on derisory wages at that time. There was a scandal about young married couples trying to survive on a private's wage and having to claim emergency state benefits.

(We also had the support of the public then too)

When Superintendent Gerry Richardson was murdered in the line of duty in 1972, an estimated 100,000 members of the public attended his funeral. That figure seems unbelievable - and I initially assumed it was an error - but it's the number given in a contemporary Time Magazine article on British policing.

How the UK has changed - for the worse - in a single lifetime.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this first point, over 90% of the Sheehy recommendations were rejected and batted off.
The Federation of the '80s and '90s were very different to the Federation of today.
A public campaign by the Federation and heavy petitioning of MPs led to Michael Howard, the Home Sec bottling it and binning it.
I was getting rent aid until the day I retired and it was never taxable.
Some county forces found it easier for accounting reasons to tax it at source, it made it easier for them, but in the following April it all came back in the form of a Compensatory Grant.
Not to be disclosed or breathed about to other halves.

Through my rose-tinted glasses I do also recall that Policing in the late '70s rewarded first year Pcs with the very generous sum of £45 gross weekly, about £30 net a week after 34% of basic rate tax was taken off.
On a relief of 24 blokes there were 22 that either cycled or walked to work and not for fitness reasons either.
They also all (except for Inspectors and above) lived in the section house or married quarters so there was no rent aid to claim.
Using an online calculator from the LSE they tell me that £45 a week in 1977 is worth £263 a week today.
So a first year Pc these days should be on £13,676 p.a. perhaps?
The Federation tell us all that a 1st year Pc earns £21,402 in 2021.

Like I say I think we should agree to disagree on this but some of our readers may wish to read this link and decide for themselves as to the true picture as to who is/was worse off.


(We also had the support of the public then too)
Rent Aid was changed to Housing allowance I can’t remember the financial details, some stayed on the old allowance some were put on housing allowance.
I think if memory serves that new recruits went onto an altogether different pay scale, it really was a time of divide and conquer.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this first point, over 90% of the Sheehy recommendations were rejected and batted off.
The Federation of the '80s and '90s were very different to the Federation of today.
A public campaign by the Federation and heavy petitioning of MPs led to Michael Howard, the Home Sec bottling it and binning it.
I was getting rent aid until the day I retired and it was never taxable.
Some county forces found it easier for accounting reasons to tax it at source, it made it easier for them, but in the following April it all came back in the form of a Compensatory Grant.
Not to be disclosed or breathed about to other halves.

Through my rose-tinted glasses I do also recall that Policing in the late '70s rewarded first year Pcs with the very generous sum of £45 gross weekly, about £30 net a week after 34% of basic rate tax was taken off.
On a relief of 24 blokes there were 22 that either cycled or walked to work and not for fitness reasons either.
They also all (except for Inspectors and above) lived in the section house or married quarters so there was no rent aid to claim.
Using an online calculator from the LSE they tell me that £45 a week in 1977 is worth £263 a week today.
So a first year Pc these days should be on £13,676 p.a. perhaps?
The Federation tell us all that a 1st year Pc earns £21,402 in 2021.

Like I say I think we should agree to disagree on this but some of our readers may wish to read this link and decide for themselves as to the true picture as to who is/was worse off.


(We also had the support of the public then too)
That £21,402 are allowances ie London weighting/allowance included? Jeez that is ridiculously low, I mean I’m not going to release my figures but my pension and I dare say a lot of other posters pensions here is a lot higher than that.
How the feck are you suppose to afford to commute into work especially with these new congestion charges that Khan is bringing in? It will cost you to work
 
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Looks like years after the Charles de Menedez (She was Gold Commander when the boys went down the tube and topped him, Op Kratos style) farce justice may finally have caught up with the cow.

One can but hope.
To be fair, the war between SB and the Anti-Terrorist Squad resulted in a huge loss of professionalism that contributed to that farce. The Special Operations control room had previously been run by Special Branch. There was 'cockpit recording', unique numbered message pads with carbon paper for all concerned for the purpose of questions and updates (and everything was logged and sealed afterward) and a rule of silence in the room because ONLY the Controller was allowed to speak. Sightseers were verboten and the Controller is God, no one outranks them.
When SB lost the war, a Night of the Long Knives / Petty minded vindictiveness, got rid of quite a few capable officers, and the professional standards of running an operation room were kicked into touch.
As related to me, by someone who I know and trust who has run ops in there as Controller, there was no 'control. The first thing Dick should have done was hoof out the sightseers, all of whom were gossiping in a huddle, no matter their rank, and tell the rest of the room to shut up as there was a lot of chatting going on and absolutely nothing was being logged as it should.
In the aftermath, Chigwell Sports Centre was booked and all the senior ranks involved had a long day there, why? possibly sorting out their stories, no one revealed anything yet and nothing was minuted.
I have heard of officers who were told that giving evidence to the enquiry was likely to be detrimental to their careers and I think it is a matter of record that no interest was shown in bringing absentee officers in to give evidence.
And where was the 'cockpit recording'? Did no one switch it on because of that loss of professionalism, or did it get wiped?

The Met, under Ian Blaire, became second rate, too many inept senior officers making decisions that made their lives easier rather than the public's lives safer.
 
The section house, I take it, was your equivalent of the barrack block. Are they all gone now?
The 'Sexual Houses' all went, as did married quarters. When I joined we had a very nice rent free flat in South Croydon. The Section Houses were for single officers of both sexes and although not rent free they were at that time they were subsidised, as were the canteens. Officers buying or renting were prevented from doing so beyond the limits of the M25. The onus was that of having manpower on hand that could quickly be mobilised in an emergency, which is common sense. However, the police are very Us and Them, the Us being senior ranks who were allowed to live outside the M25.
There was a 'Nights Out' book if you were in married pads or your own home and were planning to be away all night so a contact number had to be logged. It was discipline offence not to do this and I know of two Chief Superintendents who would personally try to catch you out.
Another discipline offence was 'Living in an immoral relationship', ie, officers who were boyfriend and girlfriend living together, and that charge was always followed by a second "Bringing the service into disrepute'.
Relationships on the 'Relief' had to been kept quiet anyway because if the skippers and guvnor learning that PC Brown and WPC Smith were seeing each other then one of them would be posted to a different Relief, ie, on a different shift where they would rarely get time off together. This was supposed to prevent officers losing control if their boyfriend or girlfriend were being assaulted at an incident, however, any 'slag' who laid a finger on a female officer was a very very silly boy indeed, back in Life on Mars times.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
If I was running things (and it's probably just as well that I'm not) I'd create a national training depot for police recruits. All recruits, regardless of the force to which they belonged, would be trained to a high common standard. Fitness, physical and mental robustness, decision making under pressure, and the application of common sense in all circumstances. There'd also be an emphasis on smartness and turnout, personal discipline and a sense of natural justice; plus the idea that constables are first and foremost members of the community.

Basically, anybody who wasn't fit enough to cope with a few days and nights of an intensive public order exercise, or who couldn't survive a gutter brawl with a couple of yobs, wouldn't get through. It would be a police version of an army training regiment and might filter out or deter the kind of wokist dross that currently infests the senior ranks of the police.

Reading between the lines, all of the above was probably the unofficial curriculum of the old police training colleges anyway.

Discipline wise, there wasn't much difference between my time on basic in '75 and Police College in '89.

Take away the weapons and ranges and insert basic law and we were good to go. Loads of drill, phys, first aid, swimming. Pressing kit, bulling boots, 4 man rooms, block inspections and lights out at 23.00.

It was, we had an ex drill instructor, we had parades every morning, we even had a few minutes of boxing, well some did but that’s another story.
Our drill Sgt was an ex Grenadier. He was only on the staff for drill and discipline and had no input at all with law/procedures or basic coppering.
 
Discipline wise, there wasn't much difference between my time on basic in '75 and Police College in '89.

Take away the weapons and ranges and insert basic law and we were good to go. Loads of drill, phys, first aid, swimming. Pressing kit, bulling boots, 4 man rooms, block inspections and lights out at 23.00.


Our drill Sgt was an ex Grenadier. He was only on the staff for drill and discipline and had no input at all with law/procedures or basic coppering.
Contrast that with the current requirement to pass a pseudo academic 'Degree in Policing' and all kinds of half baked diversity awareness trainings.

I'm not saying that all cops should be hulking ex squaddies with an interest in boxing, rugby and powerlifting, but if a gang of yobs is trying to kick your front door down, that's exactly who you want to see piling out of the back of the van.
 
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